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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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211–220 of 639 posts

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#211
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're trying to establish a precedent that would limit all monopolistic behaviour, including theirs. Obviously their motivations are to make it easier for them to compete, but it won't make it easier for them to become a monopoly.

20% global market share isn't a monopoly.

good point - it's 1/2 of a duopoly, with google being the other part.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#212
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support that anti-Apple folks should get Android, Jolla, Purism,... Apparently voting with the wallet means buying status and then complaining about what one has bought.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Why are you giving advice for users in a thread about developers rights? 90% of the youth market uses an iPhone and that's the same market Epic is in. Outside of youths, 50% of the US population uses an iPhone.

Can you provide some sources for the numbers?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#213
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bargaining is between users and developers. Developers have increasingly taken adversarial positions with their users, who have accepted increasingly onerous terms and privacy policies because individual users are not in a good bargaining position. Apple, in contrast, is in a bargaining position to negotiate terms of use on behalf of its users with developers. For example, if I purchase a subscription to a langua…

Is your gym app not available on Google store but only as a side load? Because you are imagining that because soem developers are shit then all are shit. When I was young I could create small apps and games and share with my friends. But the future seems to be "think at the idiots that might side load malware" so our children will need to create developers accounts, provide IDs , buy certificates just to develop and…

Broadly gym subscriptions aren't handled through apps. I'm assuming that there will be a tragedy of the commons, something Apple has only been moderately effective at preventing, that will reduce the quality of terms-of-service for users.

I too used to create small apps and games and share them with my friends. I still do that on a headless raspberry pi, which is a vastly superior environment than the one I had access to as a child. As the economic value of data on computers rises, I think we'll see a split between the device you use to conduct modern digital life and the device you do "old fashioned" computer stuff on. For people inclined to tinker, there will be platforms that enable that. But you won't do your banking on that platform because, as you say, idiots will side load malware. I've certainly made that split in my life (and in my classroom where we use the raspi as a teaching computer and every student has root on their own box), and it works out really well.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#214

I find a lot of the comments here split down “I want app regulation because I feel it provides a layer of safety and safety is good for the consumer” vs “I want more freedom and choice because choice is good and is better for the consumer”. Which brings to mind two things This sounds similar to the current brouhaha happening in the US over America’s inclination towards personal freedom at all cost even when govt regu…

I agree. So far I"m still leaning towards "more freedom" part so I'm using Android...but in terms of security Apple does provide an added layer.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#215
post #32

Could someone explain what was Apple trying to do? I really don't get their position in this story. It seemed obvious that trying to completely block Epic's Unreal Engine would be causing more legal issues. What is their strategy here? It feels that they actually wanted things to escalate, though I cannot see why they would do this.

Apple seems to have the position that if a company is going to start publishing apps with non allowed systems once that they will probably do it again with other apps. Epic has had the choice to conform to terms (they were not even losing money on in-app unlike the content streaming folks), even if that means removing all mention of in-app and have yet to do so. More or less Apple did the same thing to Facebook in the past for the profile abuse. Facebook just hadn’t prewarned their marketing team they were violating terms of service on purpose.

Edit: not that Epic isn’t right to sue to see if they can get their way, just that they should have sued without violating current terms. My personal belief is that much of the 30% goes to gift card promotions and markup which brings in funds for all developers.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#216
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. “We’ll remove your license if you keep misbehaving” is in no way similar to “we’ll go after your users and remove their license”. It’s a threat in the long term, if Epic and Apple cannot negotiate something satisfying (which they will eventually, there’s just too much to lose for both of them), but let’s keep some perspective.

The effects are similar. iOS 14 will be out soon. Epic needs to prepare Unreal Engine to be compatible with it. How can they do this without any developer tools?

No, the effects are not similar. If Apple removed the developers’ licenses, they could not put anything on the AppStore. If an update to the Unreal Engine gets delayed (I have no doubt it will be resolved at some point), then the current version keeps working on the OS on which it was tested, and the developer’s other applications can still be bought.

There is no need for hyperbole.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#217
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is having control over what you can install on your own PC and being in a position to actually choose from where to install it a nightmare? Is being in control and having choice a nightmare?

Well, you just look at the PC ecosystem and you can see the nightmare. Like others,I prefer Apple to have a tightly controlled App Store and believe that the benefits far outweigh the ability to install software from a 3rd party App Store. For example, Apple requiring Sign In with Apple (when signin with Google/Facebook are implemented) where you can hide your email address. That’s not possible with multiple app stor…

Corollas won't actively resist you going offroad, or being modified until it can drive offroad and win the manufacturer title in the WRC[0]. In contrast Apple resists modification of both their software & hardware so much that's it's spawned a whole right-to-repair movement around it. I like the fact the PC ecosystem allows so much freedom. I have a countless amount of mods for my games that aren't nor will be developer sanctioned, downloaded from an open-source browser running multiple aggressive privacy plugins that I know for a fact won't run on whatever engine Safari uses, all on a PC I built myself with an overclock that has voided most of my warranties. In the mobile space I use a Google pixel from which I theoretically could run anything I want on if Verizon wasn't a complete asshole with the bootloader. None of those things would be possible with anything Apple produces.

Now normally I would say that as a company you have the right to legally abuse your userbase however you want, but when you get this big that your profit margin exceeds that of several democratic countries and your particular flavor of abuse is inspiration for product development in general, than I'm going to support you losing that particular privilege.

[0]https://www.snaplap.net/toyota-corolla-wrc/

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#218
post #166
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of those examples, the only ones properly vetting apps are Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo and Apple are notorious for peddling shitty apps to consumers.

The parent was complaining about Apple being a filter on the apps that users can install on their phones. But that type of restriction is basically the industry norm.

What industry? Because I don't see gaming consoles being part of the same industry as smartphones.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#220
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support that anti-Apple folks should get Android, Jolla, Purism,... Apparently voting with the wallet means buying status and then complaining about what one has bought.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Why are you giving advice for users in a thread about developers rights? 90% of the youth market uses an iPhone and that's the same market Epic is in. Outside of youths, 50% of the US population uses an iPhone.

Be a developer for another platform then. What makes the platform is both consumers and producers of apps. Vote with your wallet and your merchandise.
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