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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#91

Post by cwhiz »

dgellow wrote: post #32

Could someone explain what was Apple trying to do? I really don't get their position in this story. It seemed obvious that trying to completely block Epic's Unreal Engine would be causing more legal issues. What is their strategy here? It feels that they actually wanted things to escalate, though I cannot see why they would do this.

Apple threatened to revoke Epic’s “Apple Developer” account due to repeated violations of the developer policy and agreement.

I am sure Apple did it to try and bully Epic into settling.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#92

Post by Hamuko »

cwhiz wrote: post #86
IvanK_net wrote: post #20

I still wonder why so many people buy devices, where the only software you could run has to be approved by the manufacturer. I think we should speak more about this fact, so that people think twice before they buy some device. I only make websites, but I am worried, that at some point, Apple would want me to pay them, so that my website is openable on their devices.

Are you talking about the Xbox, PS4, and Nintendo Switch? Oh, the iPhone? Yeah people don’t care. Having Apple vet apps is a benefit, not a curse.

Out of those examples, the only ones properly vetting apps are Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo and Apple are notorious for peddling shitty apps to consumers.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#93

Post by anoncake »

ericmay wrote: post #81
swiley wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are just some reasons why android isn’t an alternative: Most ship with maleware that can’t be removed (or can’t be removed without giving up on updating the OS.) Android still doesn’t let you run a lot of 3rd party software (the latest version breaks Termux for example.) Apple’s anticompetitive behavior also ties people to the platform (iMessage is a great example of this. My family won’t use any other IM app so…

Ok. So the trade off here is that you have to use the App Store to avoid those things. It’s not a big deal.

It's not a big deal to you.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#94

Post by klmadfejno »

jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #46
mschuster91 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a single other developer using UE was targeted directly by Apple. But indirectly. If Epic doesn't have a developer license anymore, they cannot reasonably support their clients in implementing UE on any Apple hardware (and, depending on the licensing terms, they may not even legally support it...).

Isn’t that an issue Epic has brought in themselves? Their “Fortnight division” has put at risk their “Unreal Engine division”. Or put another way, they have two products at different levels of the stack and they have consciously chosen to risk one (the game) to leverage all their customer’s of their other product (Unreal Engine) onto their side in this war.

That's what the judge is ruling is not allowed. There's no basis for it. Apple can't go after an unrelated business because it's having a temper tantrum and feeling spiteful.

The fact that fortnite is built on UE doesn't have any significance here.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#95

Post by sjwright »

badsectoracula wrote: post #44
wodenokoto wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where the only software you could run has to be approved by the manufacturer. My two reasons: 1. I bought cellphones before the iPhone. This is nothing new. 2. I don't need everything to run on my phone. The amount of things I can't run on my phone, but wish I could is incredibly tiny, compared to the perceived additional utility my iphone gives me compared to my last Android or dumbphone. Moreover, I also own a Ni…

Yes but why? Why not demand to be able to have control over your own devices?

Why? Because having Apple in control of the device is valuable to me. VERY valuable. It's the big reason why I willingly pay more for Apple phones. If I wanted control over my phone, I don't need to "demand" it. I would have simply bought a different product.

Meanwhile, I already have plenty of devices that I have control over.

That's like asking why not insist that your Tesla Model 3 has a diesel engine, a manual transmission and the ability to crawl up boulders. Not everyone buys things for the same reasons.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#96

Post by dividedbyzero »

cwhiz wrote: post #86
IvanK_net wrote: post #20

I still wonder why so many people buy devices, where the only software you could run has to be approved by the manufacturer. I think we should speak more about this fact, so that people think twice before they buy some device. I only make websites, but I am worried, that at some point, Apple would want me to pay them, so that my website is openable on their devices.

Are you talking about the Xbox, PS4, and Nintendo Switch? Oh, the iPhone? Yeah people don’t care. Having Apple vet apps is a benefit, not a curse.

Absolutely. It's an environment where even people with a strong install-all-the-toolbars urge have a hard time harming themselves.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#97

Post by invalidusernam3 »

dgellow wrote: post #32

Could someone explain what was Apple trying to do? I really don't get their position in this story. It seemed obvious that trying to completely block Epic's Unreal Engine would be causing more legal issues. What is their strategy here? It feels that they actually wanted things to escalate, though I cannot see why they would do this.

As far as I understand, Apple has blocked Epic's developer account which prevents them from developing for iOS. They haven't directly blocked Unreal engine

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#98

Post by mantap »

kergonath wrote: post #54
modeless wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking Epic from developing Unreal Engine is a threat to anyone using it.

Come on. “We’ll remove your license if you keep misbehaving” is in no way similar to “we’ll go after your users and remove their license”. It’s a threat in the long term, if Epic and Apple cannot negotiate something satisfying (which they will eventually, there’s just too much to lose for both of them), but let’s keep some perspective.

The effects are similar. iOS 14 will be out soon. Epic needs to prepare Unreal Engine to be compatible with it. How can they do this without any developer tools?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#99

Post by dgellow »

raxxorrax wrote: post #69
dgellow wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that's the case, a legal and economics competition between those block owners sounds like a positive thing! A more dynamic market is what I want as a developer and consumer.

Heh, I don't see anything dynamic here. You basically choose between two prison cells instead of having an open market where the platform isn't more than a side note. You can just have no block owners at all. Having two competing kings fighting over the throne isn't "dynamic" democracy.

Let's say Epic get what they want, that would open iOS to competing app stores and/or would make rules more flexible regarding available payment systems and/or would allow applications to be side loaded. That's more dynamism, market forces can then play their role. I understand that you may want an even more open market, but that's a quite different topic.

> Having two competing kings fighting over the throne isn't "dynamic" democracy.

That would be a more dynamic kingship than just having one king with full control over the kingdom. I'm not sure what you want to say here. Dynamism doesn't transform the kingdom in a democratic system. Nor is Apple or Epic part of a democratic battle. You seem to be conflating a bunch of things IMHO.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#100

Post by MichaelBurge »

badsectoracula wrote: post #57
ericmay wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we don’t want control over our Nintendo switch or iPhone.

But why? What is the benefit of giving up that control?

Nintendo is in a stronger negotiating position vs. game companies, if the hardware only accepts signed games. This makes it easier to get exclusive games, prevents piracy(which encourages games to be made in the first place), and allows Nintendo to enforce standards across all games.

Console hardware doesn't have much value by itself: Computers are plentiful, so if you just want something to run software pick up a Raspberry Pi or Nvidia Jetson. Their value derives from the games that companies make, so ceding power to the game companies(via Nintendo) makes your console more valuable.

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