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Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

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Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#221

Post by mindslight »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #44
axaxs wrote: post #3

Why are we injecting people during arrests, which by definition are not yet guilty people? Even if nobody had died, this is absurd.

There are some good uses cases . You arrive on scene and the patient is injured and agitated and lashing out. EMT is having a hard time as well. You need to give them something. Basically Benzos or Ketamine, and Ketamine is much safer and can relieve pain

If a suspect is restrained enough to be injected with a needle, then the police have already overpowered them. If an EMT has not judged that a sedative will medically help their patient, the right answer for the police is hand and ankle cuffs. Ordering administration of a sedative is purely for the officers' own desires - to make their jobs easier in the future and to extra-judicially punish.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#222

Post by jooize »

alchemism wrote: post #126
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #62

> He got 500 milligrams because they thought he weighed 220 pounds, but he was only 140 pounds and should have received 315 milligrams. 315 milligrams is still.. a lot. Especially injected into the bloodstream (I presume?) all at one time. Enough to really wrangle your marbles even if you're used to that kind of stuff. edit: To expand, that's about the dosage most people would get delusions of some sort, but not be 1…

I’ve seen club kids go into what I can only describe as an ‘ambulatory trance state’ at the dosage levels you speak of. I talked down one or two people from completely destroying their environment while in such a state, by using deliberately de-escalatory calming techniques. I’m aghast the police would use such a substance because it is indeed a recipe for disaster when mixed with their expectations of behavior.

Where can I learn de-escalatory calming techniques?

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#223

Post by Spearchucker »

notassigned wrote: post #219
esperent wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely true. However, there is not much assuming being done. The absolutely stark, clear, and unassailable fact that many police in the US are violent, racist thugs has been repeatedly shoved into my face over the last few months. Not all of them are, by any means. But even the good cops are part of a system that enables and rewards racist, thuggish behavior.

Well I can't argue with that since you said 'many' police in a country of 350+ million people. But what is many? 5? 100? 1000? It's easy to pick these instances and assign blame retrospectively when in reality, things like this almost never happen. If the guy had pulled out a gun and shot the cops in the head, we wouldn't have heard a thing about it. Business as usual.

If it happens once that's once too many.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#224

Post by in3d »

mateus1 wrote: post #68
1_player wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the K-Hole.

Yes this is commmonly known as a K-Hole. It's worse than a bad trip from what I've heard. Ketamine is a party drug especially common among young gay people here in Brazil. It's usually briefly inhaled so I'm guessing very low doses. The 500mg mentioned in the article sounds terrible.

"Yes this is commmonly known as a K-Hole. It's worse than a bad trip from what I've heard."

No, it doesn't have to be bad at all if it's not used in a bad setting and most people enjoy the effects. It wouldn't be a common drug otherwise. See https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/d3dxzq/we-asked-people-ab...

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#225

Post by fareesh »

Yc4win wrote: post #151

To use a powerful animal tranquilizer on a human being just to make some cops' job "easier" is about the most abhorrent, sickly thing I have heard in years. I don't want to read any more of this. To think of all the complications in a person's body from experiencing a drug that puts your conscience in a literally black hole (K-hole) is just sick. It's wrong.

Policemen do one of the toughest jobs in society, especially in places where crime is high. Society owes them a great debt for enforcing the law because there are some hard criminals out there who would run amok if a weak and ineffective police force were the norm.

Armchair criticism of the police with zero consideration for their point of view is not helpful to anyone, most of all victims of crimes.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#227

Post by wonderwonder »

notassigned wrote: post #219
esperent wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely true. However, there is not much assuming being done. The absolutely stark, clear, and unassailable fact that many police in the US are violent, racist thugs has been repeatedly shoved into my face over the last few months. Not all of them are, by any means. But even the good cops are part of a system that enables and rewards racist, thuggish behavior.

Well I can't argue with that since you said 'many' police in a country of 350+ million people. But what is many? 5? 100? 1000? It's easy to pick these instances and assign blame retrospectively when in reality, things like this almost never happen. If the guy had pulled out a gun and shot the cops in the head, we wouldn't have heard a thing about it. Business as usual.

This is a nonsense argument. Police in the United States kill civilians at a rate more that 3x the rate of the next first world nation. In almost all cases of police acting with bias, those same officers are surrounded by other officers who do nothing. All of these bystanding officers are guilty of the same crime. These cases are just the ones that are brought to the national attention there are many more that are not. In very many of these cases several police body cameras just stopped working or were not on.

"in reality, things like this almost never happen" I am willing to bet your life experience is very different than those of minorities.

" If the guy had pulled out a gun and shot the cops in the head, we wouldn't have heard a thing about it" Not sure what you base this on, I feel like to could be based on nothing but the narrative you are attempting spin. Is your argument that police should be more aggressive based on what could happen? Should police just gun everyone down because they may have a gun and pull it out and shoot them in the head?

In this country, police have godlike life or death power, every instance of police killings should be heavily scrutinized by neutral parties and stringent protocols put in place to prevent it with harsh criminal penalties for those that dont follow the rules. How you can just shrug and accept any cases of police brutality is beyond me.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#228

Post by mateus1 »

in3d wrote: post #224
mateus1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is commmonly known as a K-Hole. It's worse than a bad trip from what I've heard. Ketamine is a party drug especially common among young gay people here in Brazil. It's usually briefly inhaled so I'm guessing very low doses. The 500mg mentioned in the article sounds terrible.

"Yes this is commmonly known as a K-Hole. It's worse than a bad trip from what I've heard." No, it doesn't have to be bad at all if it's not used in a bad setting and most people enjoy the effects. It wouldn't be a common drug otherwise. See https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/d3dxzq/we-asked-people-ab...

Ah, I stand corrected! Thanks for the info.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#229

Post by kristofferR »

BagPiper5000 wrote: post #106
ladberg wrote: post #14

I dislocated my ankle rock climbing a few years ago and had to be taken to the hospital. After a few doses of morphine had zero noticeable impact on my pain, they gave me ketamine so I couldn't feel the pain of the reduction (aka pulling my foot out and moving it back into place). The ketamine experience was far worse than my fall and any subsequent pain I experienced, and I would gladly take the pain of the reductio…

Accidentally doing too much ketamine and badly k-holing (by snorting) is one of the worst experiences of my life. Maybe the worst. It was exactly as you described, it's like you're being cut off from reality and have no way back. It's like being plunged into the bottom of the ocean, darkness, everything real is distant, you try to move but you can't - it's like someone has unplugged all your sensory organs and limbs.…

It can be absolutely wonderful if you're properly prepared though, just lying in your bed with a dim pink light on listening to Carbon Based Lifeforms or something, enjoying escaping your body for a while and floating around in an undefinable sea of warm nothingness.

However, it absolutely sounds like it could be hell if you're not prepared though - especially in police custody, but even just fighting against it in a party situation where you want to exist and be social could be problematic.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#230

Post by tjpnz »

selectodude wrote: post #156
IanDrake wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone high on meth is pretty much the hulk.

A taser is basically ineffective when used on somebody high on PCP. If they're violent enough, you basically either need a tranq dart or a gun.

Meth is a problem everywhere yet cops still manage to apprehend suspects without anyone dying of a drug induced heart attack in the process.
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