151–160 of 435 posts
To think of all the complications in a person's body from experiencing a drug that puts your conscience in a literally black hole (K-hole) is just sick. It's wrong.
I'm confused. The police aren't administering the drug, EMS is. Can't you just solve this by telling EMS not to administer it unless they feel it's needed?
The guy with the gun who gets to murder with impunity said to do it. This is what happens when medical personnel refuse illegal police orders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_University_of_Utah_Hospit... Graphic video of police abusing the nurse who refused: https://youtu.be/ihQ1-LQOkns Any time you think you have a simple solution to a problem and your explanation to fix things starts with “just”, stop and think…
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That is false, police are not injecting people with Ketamine. As the article says, paramedics are.
This is technically true and misses the point. Police are ordering paramedics to inject it. (edit: to be clear, I am saying that yes, ordering somebody else to do it is morally equivalent to doing it yourself... if it's wrong to do it yourself, it's just as wrong to order somebody else to do it) Pointing out that the police aren't injecting it themselves is like pointing out that [insert name of murderous dictator he…
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If you care about hearing a serious response, I think most Americans would agree that this protocol is on the wrong side of the line, but at the same time not thoroughly murderous in intent. It sounds like an extreme tactic that should be re-thought, and it is perfectly legal and normal for me to share this opinion or organize votes for change. In China there are “execution vans” with no other purpose even suggested:…
> In China there are “execution vans” with no other purpose even suggested: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van From your article > Liu was convicted > a reprieve after appealing > given a retrial Your entire article describes convicted death row prisoners, whether we agree with or respect China's due process at all. Why did you think it bolstered your argument to talk about Chinese due process in an articl…
Anyway I’m just trying to say that if you want to apply the most unfriendly interpretation to some happening in America, in order to compare it to “non-American Marxist regimes”, at least be consistent.
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First I've ever heard of this and I'm stunned. Who are they trying to arrest? The Incredible Hulk?
Anyone high on meth is pretty much the hulk.
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Feel free to propose a method, and we'll all object to that. Stopping an uncooperative person is guaranteed to be upsetting to somebody. That is fundamental to the problem. Every method tried so far has been objected to by squeamish people who refuse to understand. If we let criminals run amok, then we get a failed state, and then armed gangs form to impose their own idea of a justice system. I assure you, those arme…
I live in a country where we don't inject people with ketamine on the street, nor do "criminals run amok". We also don't have armed gangs imposing "their own idea of a justice system", and we have fewer police killings in 25 years than the US has in 25 days. I imagine your comment is probably symptomatic of the major societal issues within the US; it certainly worsens the image of the US to those fortunate enough to…
I live in a country where we don't inject people with
ketamine on the street, nor do "criminals run amok".
We also don't have armed gangs imposing "their own idea
of a justice system", and we have fewer police killings
in 25 years than the US has in 25 days.
I would like to point out the America, one's treatment by police varies greatly.
I'm a white man in my 40s have never witnessed police brutality firsthand. In all my interactions with police, they have acted properly and de-escalated things nicely, even when perhaps I didn't agree with them.
This is the experience shared by many (most?) Americans who, once again, have trouble imagining experiences other than their own. They imagine that nearly all police are just, and therefore victims of police brutality must have done something to deserve the violence.
Essentially, it is the "just world" fallacy writ large. People like to think that the world is just, and therefore like to think that those who experience misfortune have done something to deserve it. It is more pleasant than realizing we live in a country where the police sometimes act in shockingly violent and inappropriate ways.
I do know many people who have experienced awful treatment by police. And of course in recent years much light has been shone upon this misconduct.
There are other types of scenarios where out of control cops bully doctors and nurses into doing illegal things, two that I have read about:
- forcing a suspect to be subject to anal cavity search by a doctor at a hospital after a traffic stop
- forcing hospital staff to run blood tests on an awake, non-consenting suspect
Everyone who has ever dealt with the medical world for a personal or family problem understands that there are few “sure things” and that something that worked miraculously for someone’s problem might not work for yours, even if they seem like the same problem. Allowing police a position to direct medical care is utterly outrageous and irresponsible.
That said, what was done to Elijah McCain is one of the sickest, most unacceptably fucked up nightmare scenarios I’ve ever heard of. The initial interaction was a result of racist police who then had their victim murdered because they never saw him as a person, just another potential criminal.
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Feel free to propose a method, and we'll all object to that. Stopping an uncooperative person is guaranteed to be upsetting to somebody. That is fundamental to the problem. Every method tried so far has been objected to by squeamish people who refuse to understand. If we let criminals run amok, then we get a failed state, and then armed gangs form to impose their own idea of a justice system. I assure you, those arme…
If it's ok for us to deal with violent people by: a) gunning them down in the streets b) beating the shit out of them c) injecting them with hilarious overdoses of drugs and crossing our fingers then why would we pay for police? If that's ok, we might as well go back to old west times and just have everyone carry revolvers, possibly calling the town apothecary with his bottle of ether if we think we need it. It'll be…
I agree there is always room to consider other ways of handling outlying incidents. Injecting drugs into people violates so many principles of freedom it seems hard to justify it.
The pizza idea could work in some cases but I think we also have to realize that some people being taken into custody are irrational either from mental illness, and/or drug use, could be armed and/or violent, and cordoning them off may work or it may not. And then a potentially armed, violent, and irrational person is a threat to innocent people. The police have many objectives and one of those is to take suspects into custody safely so they can have just administrated. However, the safety of the public might be of higher priority and if asked to make a choice between hurting a suspect that appears irrational and violent so as to not risk the liberties of the public or respecting their liberties but putting the liberties of the public at risk, they’ll choose to optimize for the former.
Policing will never be perfect and there is a reasonable amount of error we should tolerate. And there should be accountability. I do agree that it would appear, at least from the stories that tend to make the news, that diffusion could be employed more.
To use a powerful animal tranquilizer on a human being just to make some cops' job "easier" is about the most abhorrent, sickly thing I have heard in years. I don't want to read any more of this. To think of all the complications in a person's body from experiencing a drug that puts your conscience in a literally black hole (K-hole) is just sick. It's wrong.
You’re waxing hyperbolic. It’s a sedative drug used in normal human clinical practice, and in many settings is preferable because it has -fewer- risks of complications than other sedatives. And while I’m highly critical of it’s being used without strict medical protocol, I’ve worked psych ED enough to understand that there are occasionally absolutely, 100% ridiculously “agitated” patients that are going to have to be brought in, and will not do so without large amounts of physical force - something that is also prone to unfortunate complications.