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Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

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Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#51

Post by [deleted] »

roenxi wrote: post #8
sebmellen wrote: post #2

This has been posted multiple times already. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24241488 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24246212 3: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24243496

And the top comment - that blockchains resist financial censorship - is still extremely insightful. Blockchains are truthful in a way like no other ledger (all of which are ultimately mutable at an individual entities whim). Bank transfers mean 2 transactors, 2 banks and at least one government think the transaction is appropriate. Blockchain cuts most of that out. This is clearly transformative. Governments are one…

[deleted]

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#52

Post by candiodari »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #14
roenxi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the top comment - that blockchains resist financial censorship - is still extremely insightful. Blockchains are truthful in a way like no other ledger (all of which are ultimately mutable at an individual entities whim). Bank transfers mean 2 transactors, 2 banks and at least one government think the transaction is appropriate. Blockchain cuts most of that out. This is clearly transformative. Governments are one…

> This is clearly transformative It clearly is not, as evidenced by the lack of transformation of the banking sector since Bitcoin first came out in January 2009.

Ask your local police department, or a few addicts. I think they'll report the situation completely transformed compared to 10 years ago ...

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#53

Post by znpy »

This kind of posts/articles bother me quite a bit.

Mostly because blockchain technology was meant to fundamentally work as a viable alternative to existing payments systems, not data stores or other kinds of stuff. One of the local grocery stores (Carrefour iirc) prints a code on the receipt through which, allegedly, I could read the receipt off a blockchain. Why anyone care about that?

Now you tell me I can have access to money transfer services without the hassle of dealing with banks and intermediaries, that is actually interesting.

James Mickens has made an interesting talk abou blockchains and how most of them are basically the wrong solutions to most problems. And it's kinda fine but mostly misses the whole point of blockchains as monetary system.

Tl;dr: yeah blockchains are the solution to /almost/ nothing, but can you blame a screwdriver for being bad at opening a can of soup?

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#54

Post by pmachinery »

roenxi wrote: post #50
pmachinery wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is clearly transformative. [...] The implications are still unclear Around the time Bitcoin originated (or at least when the name was finally decided upon and the domain registered), the first commercial Android device was launched. Since then the latter creation has put interconnected computers literally into the hands of virtually everyone on the planet, allowing for numerous other technologies, industries a…

That isn't a very solid argument - they had ISPs and TCP/IP and emails in 1970s [0] and yet HTTP/Netscape/Amazon/Google/the rest of what the modern internet is used for didn't exist before the 90s. Transformation doesn't have to happen quickly. [0] https://www.wired.com/2012/12/queen-and-the-internet/

> That isn't a very solid argument - they had ISPs and TCP/IP and emails in 1970s [0] and yet HTTP/Netscape/Amazon/Google/the rest of what the modern internet is used for didn't exist before the 90s.

No, not a solid argument would be counting the adoption of "blockchain" from when it was created, but everything else from the 1970s for some reason.

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#55

Post by exdsq »

takeda wrote: post #44
exdsq wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why’s it inefficient at doing it? Proof of Stake chains have low fees and very low energy costs. Edit: also, it’s a way of borrowing money immediately from others by locking up collateral until you’ve repaid the loan, else at a certain time the collateral is sent to the loaner. It’s a really cool way of decentralising micro loans and removing financial risk to the loaner. For people who don’t have access to credit it…

Back in 2018 it was estimated that bitcoin network itself used more energy than Switzerland. In addition to the energy this also translates to global warming. Anyway you mentioned "If someone can show me a non-blockchain design for decentralised over-collateralised loans then I’ll concede and go back to full skeptic :)" My question is, why it has to be decentralized and come with that huge cost?

So the blockchain I work on uses significantly less energy than PoW which is what you’re referring too - I agree they’re wasteful. POS doesn’t require the computational effort for blocks so doesn’t require more energy than a small server.

As to the decentralised question: as someone from the UK sure we have loans but these allow you to get them without a credit check and they’re accepted/paid immediately. Someone in a third world country might not have access to the same financial instruments we get to enjoy.

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#56

Post by exdsq »

dragonwriter wrote: post #42
exdsq wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the normal attack on blockchain is that you can do it without that tech - I think DeFi is genuinely useful and I don’t know how you could implement it with the same guarantees without a blockchain

> I think DeFi is genuinely useful and I don’t know how you could implement it with the same guarantees without a blockchain If you can't define the problem without reference to blockchain, then no one can offer a non-blockchain solution. That doesn't mean there isn't a non-blockchain solution to the actual problem, just that you are so wrapped up on a preconceived solution that you can't specify what the problem is…

How can I lend you money that’s repaid at the end of the month automatically, or by you beforehand, if I don’t know/trust you?

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#57

Post by altpaddle »

baron816 wrote: post #46

I think it would be cool if there were some sort of currency kids could use in exchange for screen time. Giving real money to kids as a reward has always been a bit iffy. What are they going to spend it on? Candy? Video games? Screen time would probably be better since its something they’re going to consume multiple times everyday, but also something parents want to control. Instead of giving them cash for completing…

See this is the type of confusion that blockchain causes. At first I thought your suggestion sounded reasonable but now I don't really see how a use case like this would be improved by using a blockchain vs a standard centralized server app.

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#58

Post by altpaddle »

pattusk wrote: post #12

I don't understand why everything has to be a "solution" for something. True innovations don't bring solutions to old problems, they just change the paradigm. Cars didn't solve the transportation problem. Horses still worked fine. What problem did the internet solve specifically? We think of the infinite amount of possibilities it created (along with new problems) not the problems it solved (most of those would be ir…

Just wondering how crypto has given you a more convenient service than traditional banking? I've become a fan of crypto the last couple years but even I have to admit that a lot of the UX is frequently a pain in the ass and how hard it is to explain these ideas to non-tech people

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#59

Post by altpaddle »

darawk wrote: post #37

There is something else that blockchain does that I don't often see people talking about, or they do talk about it, but they don't seem to quite understand it fully. Blockchain solves the platform problem. Finance needs a platform. Right now, there are a myriad of broken, old, difficult to upgrade systems that prevent basically any significant innovation from taking place in the payment transfer landscape. This has b…

I think that's one of the main reasons that this use case hasn't taken off. Who is going to invest resources into a 'financial commons' platform that no one owns and the creator can't make a profit off of? Why would government allow a platform that they have no control over to manage such a critical part of our country's infrastructure? Control seems like a necessary feature for anything so critical

Re: Blockchain, the Solution for Almost Nothing

#60

Post by companyhen »

cromwellian wrote: post #45
companyhen wrote: post #10

https://arweave.org - pay once, store forever. decentralized storage network. backed by a16z, coinbase, and more. https://www.hyperledger.org/learn/publications/soramitsu-cas... - central bank digital currency in Cambodia built on Hyperledger Iroha https://defipulse.com - $6b+ locked in DeFi applications I don't see how tech inclined people don't see value in what's being created right now unless your eyes are closed…

What's interesting tech what isn't necessarily whats great for end users. Would you trust your mission critical data to a decentralized store? I wouldn't. What's the latency and throughput of Arweave? Can I serve 100k QPS off of it? What happens in the end of a protocol hack or client, bug? We've seen many blockchains destroyed by bugs and flaws, and we've seen others just fade. I mean, we've already gone through sev…

I've been using it to host static websites for free personally. You can get free AR to try it yourself, more than enough to last you a very long time. I deploy from localhost and it's on the permaweb almost instantly.

http://tokens.arweave.org/

Arweave is based on a new consensus mechanism called ‘proof of access’ (PoA). Arweave is more suitable for slow write (upload) and fast read (download). Download is more useful for most use cases, like hosting websites, unlike other decentralized storage projects which are more suitable for write (Upload)

Arweave has developed a system for data storage which makes it economically sustainable and feasible to store data for centuries. The system allows you to have highly available low latency data storage while maintaining an incentive model where miners will store user's data forever.

Some apps you can check out built on the permaweb:

https://medium.com/@arweave/the-arweave-open-web-incubator-d...

https://weve.email

https://v2.feedweave.co

https://3255w57x4jrhpmzwesguivvjyqnphc4cej5mea5mdpllp46fnrtq...

https://7usqj2gxzeg2hek6sngrsap3fcizkfklqr2trdkl4tpibc6cgs3q...

https://weibo-uncensored.github.io/

https://permasee.com/

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