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Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

nytimes.com

361–369 of 369 posts

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#361
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

according to you .. miner garments invented 150 years ago are a staple of nowadays fashion.

Pointing out an extreme outlying example does nothing to contradict my assertion. A single example does nothing to negate what is obviously an overall trend.

ok, let's rewind.

First, gp comment just give a basic example (chinos or tshirts, or lots of other clothes would have been admissible too) showing that your assertion is pretty weak.

But let's not focus on that one.

Let's see what the thesis is :

- there are new trends (dictated by celebrities and designers)

- these trends only sow insecurities and environmental destruction.

Let's disregard the first one, even though as shown above it could be debated.

but focus on the second part. You assert that fashion work only sow insecurities and environmental destruction but provide nothing to prove that point. You can repeat as many as you want that an art form brings nothing, you will be no closer to have an actual argument.

I am really not a fan of fast fashion and its environmental practices but if anything it is more of a parasitism of the work of fashion designers. By a large margin, the bulk of what fast fashion companies produces does not come from well known designers and for good reason : there is a lot of work on materials, techniques and fitting that get into such pieces. This is just not doable at any scale.

If anything, a better argument would be that late stage capitalism or lack environmental taxation allow companies to produce lots of goods without any regard for the environment.

"these trends only sow insecurities" is a very sad statement. Clothing choices is way of self expression for many people. The world would not be a better place if we all worn black pants and grey tshirts, only a less interesting one.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#362
post #361
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out an extreme outlying example does nothing to contradict my assertion. A single example does nothing to negate what is obviously an overall trend.

ok, let's rewind. First, gp comment just give a basic example (chinos or tshirts, or lots of other clothes would have been admissible too) showing that your assertion is pretty weak. But let's not focus on that one. Let's see what the thesis is : - there are new trends (dictated by celebrities and designers) - these trends only sow insecurities and environmental destruction. Let's disregard the first one, even though…

Basics such as chinos and t-shirts do not show that "my assertion is pretty weak" at all, because they aren't "fast fashion". They are staples that remain in style for a long, long time. I'd argue that they serve to support my argument rather than contradict it. I didn't say all clothing is "fast fashion".

As for the second part. My quote was actually 'New "trends" dictated by celebrities and designers every year do nothing but sow personal insecurities and environmental destruction.'

Obviously the phrase "do nothing but" is an absolutism that I should not have used, since it makes it easy for someone to provide a single counter-example to disprove it. I don't deny that self-expression and "art" are positive things. The question is whether those positive effects are worthwhile considering the negative ones. My opinion is that it's not even close. Not by a long shot.

>late stage capitalism or lack environmental taxation allow companies to produce lots of goods without any regard for the environment.

Agreed. But, I think the fashion industry itself is largely morally bankrupt. It preys on peoples insecurities, and environmental externalities more so than (almost) any other.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#363
post #362
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, let's rewind. First, gp comment just give a basic example (chinos or tshirts, or lots of other clothes would have been admissible too) showing that your assertion is pretty weak. But let's not focus on that one. Let's see what the thesis is : - there are new trends (dictated by celebrities and designers) - these trends only sow insecurities and environmental destruction. Let's disregard the first one, even though…

Basics such as chinos and t-shirts do not show that "my assertion is pretty weak" at all, because they aren't "fast fashion". They are staples that remain in style for a long, long time. I'd argue that they serve to support my argument rather than contradict it. I didn't say all clothing is "fast fashion". As for the second part. My quote was actually 'New "trends" dictated by celebrities and designers every year do…

> My opinion is that it's not even close. Not by a long shot.

at last we agree. That's your opinion and nothing else. you also seem to confuse/conflate fashion with fast fashion. It seems just as fair and interestined as conflating movie making with the worst money grabbing by the numbers movie ever made.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#364
post #362
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, let's rewind. First, gp comment just give a basic example (chinos or tshirts, or lots of other clothes would have been admissible too) showing that your assertion is pretty weak. But let's not focus on that one. Let's see what the thesis is : - there are new trends (dictated by celebrities and designers) - these trends only sow insecurities and environmental destruction. Let's disregard the first one, even though…

Basics such as chinos and t-shirts do not show that "my assertion is pretty weak" at all, because they aren't "fast fashion". They are staples that remain in style for a long, long time. I'd argue that they serve to support my argument rather than contradict it. I didn't say all clothing is "fast fashion". As for the second part. My quote was actually 'New "trends" dictated by celebrities and designers every year do…

well if you remove the "do nothing but", the argument does only get weaker since it becomes "for some people fashion fuels insecurities, so it should be destroyed".

Marvel movies always have that one shot of the protagonist impossible pecs and abs. It fuels insecurities for sure for some men. It is not a reason to stop making movies.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#365
post #315

Most of my money net goes towards cycling gear. I buy new clothes maybe once a year or once every two years. I have a custom made suit that I bought from a bespoke tailor in Chengdu for about 1200 usd including custom shoes. I still want to find a nice trench coat for winter, and I saw one at Dior that I really liked. Didn’t want to pay the 5000 usd price tag though.

I remember asian tailors advertised in the Financial Times. They just rented a room near the City to make measuremens an bought an ad in FT to book appointments. That way you could get a nice bespoke suit for less than it was sold in London. I wonder if that market still exists.

I think it depends on who you approach. The place I went to in Chengdu was actually owned by a foreigner. You would get measured. Then he sourced fabric from Hong Kong, had the pieces made there, then made second and third fittings in person. Shoes were made locally, with leather sourced from Hong Kong as well.

I'm not sure if it would be possible to order a completely bespoke tailored suit online. If you gave them your measurements, you probably could get a suit, that was semi-tailored (similar to off-the-shelf suits). You'd still need to get final adjustments made. But it still wouldn't be completely fitted 100% to you and your body.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#366
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always strikes me as odd that so many Americans look at the constitution as if it was a holy text from the founding fathers that must be followed and left unchanged, even though they are usually discussing amendments...

Nobody’s discussing an amendment here, at no point did they suggest it should remain unchanged, and concerns over interpretation apply to any future amendments anyways. Picking up a gun you’ve found from the larger cultural war and shooting random commenters with it is fun, but quite inappropriate for HN from what I’ve seen of it.

> Nobody’s discussing an amendment here

Yes they are, the comment above me has this:

> I don't know how more unambiguous the framers could get than "shall not be infringed".

That's the second amendment, is it not?

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#367
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The male equivalent of those styles can be found in the realm of gay fashion.

Not really. Are you thinking this through, or just making some kind of lazy "women's clothes = gay" connection? Most revealing/sexy clothes for men are much more casual than these styles.

I will tell you my thinking, and you can decide whether to call it 'lazy'. The styles are 'revealing/sexy'. There exist clothes for men that fit that description, but they are less popular. Because they send out a message most men don't want to be sending out. (I guess most women don't either, at least not all the time.)

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad to see that the nuts think requiring background checks is now "reducing gun rights". Reasonable limits on rights has always been constitutional. Perhaps you should give that document a read. I guess fox news is winning that battle.

> Reasonable limits on rights has always been constitutional. Citation needed. I don't know how more unambiguous the framers could get than "shall not be infringed". Setting aside my personal feelings on the matter, this just seems to be a bad argument which is not in evidence. I've read the Constitution thoroughly on more than one occasion, I don't see anything within that makes it seems as if the framers thought ig…

Citation? 40 years of Supreme Court rulings. You right to free speech has its limits. As does every other right.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad to see that the nuts think requiring background checks is now "reducing gun rights". Reasonable limits on rights has always been constitutional. Perhaps you should give that document a read. I guess fox news is winning that battle.

When researching the levis funding and the partnership with 'everytown' - they use words like 'common sense', and 'ending violence' - in the headings.. but when you look at the agenda and what they actually advocate for - it's not background checks - they are actively trying to ban a long list of weapons and putting up other barriers to make it harder for people to bear arms. (see what they tried to push through in V…

They shouldn’t be in your news source all. If they are you aren’t worth debating as you clearly don’t understand facts. Embarrassing.

Nobody cares about your precious guns. We care about mentally ill getting assault rifles. It’s really not that hard to understand.

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