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Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#521

Post by anonytrary »

blakesterz wrote: post #6

"Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers, while labor unions and elected officials contend this deprives them of traditional benefits like health insurance and workers’ compensation." I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. 1. https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/ 2. (In a May online survey dra…

> I was curious about what drivers think.

This. I dislike how other people ("officials") are deciding what workers want for themselves. How about we stop patronizing the workforce and let them make decisions for themselves. People lean on Uber and it's not like they don't understand what money they're getting for their time. At the end of the day, shutting down Uber would just be a pain in the ass for the people.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#522

Post by pembrook »

URSpider94 wrote: post #498
Cookingboy wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>other than when the drivers choose to work. You can't just hand waive away a fundamental difference like that. From my conversation with some Lyft/Uber drivers they really treasure that aspect and they would rather quit if they are forced to be regular employees with dictated working hours.

Becoming an employee doesn’t necessarily mean you have to work a rigid schedule. There are plenty of employees, like flight attendants, who bid on shifts on a periodic basis, and who have the opportunity to trade or add shifts freely.

I see you’ve never worked minimum wage jobs before.

There are not “plenty” of unskilled jobs that allow you to set your own hours.

In fact, all of jobs I had accessible to me before I had a degree had ZERO flexibility on hours. You were scheduled (rarely ever during standard 9 to 5 hours), and if you didn’t show up, you were fired.

I would have happily taken a few bucks less than minimum wage for the ability to set my own hours and educate myself. Who are you to tell me I’m being exploited—-as you sit at your 100k+ computer job looking down at me.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#523

Post by thesimon »

xapata wrote: post #488
lathiat wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a problem with Taxi drivers as well. Have had friends too close to the airport miss flights because drivers keep rejecting the fare because it goes to drivers near the airport who want a long trip.

I've had taxi drivers yell at me for how close I lived to the airport. Angrily banging the steering wheel. "I waited in line for 2 hours and I get this fucking fare!?" Then they drive maniacally fast, weaving through traffic hoping to catch the tail end of passengers disembarking my flight. Mildly terrifying. Uber and Lyft were so welcome.

> Uber and Lyft were so welcome

Then you are lucky. I can't count the times the drivers called me before picking me up, asking me where I want to go and then cancelling if it was nearby (or no answer at all).

I never cancel, but they do.

And when they don't do that, they are extremly annoyed when it's something close to the airport.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#524

Post by anonunivgrad »

ram_rar wrote: post #80
ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #71

This is all a shit show because the infrastructures in place are currently doomed for the market to succeed: - no healthcare means you're a slave of whatever you can find, - tipping culture means your employer can pay you shit

+1 for tipping culture. I just dont get it, why can employers pay their fair share, instead of expecting customers to foot the bill.

This is a myth. Tipped employees typically do way better than the minimum wage.

Tipping encourages good service. Go to your average European restaurant and you can see what the alternative is: lazy and often outright rude waitstaff who resent their customers.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#525

Post by Nydhal »

jeffbee wrote: post #435
kyle_martin1 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for SuperShuttle developing their driver mobile app. I can tell you for a fact that a big reason SuperShuttle failed is because the drivers were independent. They would consistently reject low cost trips and wait it out until they got one "mega" trip so that they only need to actually work for about 3 hours/day. Some days they wouldn't take any trips, just hang out in the van playing Flappy Bird. This was a…

This is what we call "revealed preference". It doesn't really matter what ten thousand Uber drivers have told you (and some of the supposed first-hand field surveying claimed in this discussion stretches belief). The only thing that matters in the end is how the participants in the market actually behave.

Actions > Words.

Such a simple concept yet many ignore it. Nowadays it's trendy to call such concepts "mental models".

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#526

Post by zebnyc »

jeffbee wrote: post #437
EpicEng wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform... As a contractor I can set my rate, but the company can also simply not hire me. As a contractor I can act as I wish, but the company can terminate my contract. As a contractor, I pay for my unemployment insurance if I want it. So... What's the practical difference? How is this any different than someone who decides to make a livin…

If your contract can be terminated at any time without cause, that supports the notion that you're an employee, not a contractor. That's one of the aspects of the Borello test. https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_independentcontractor.htm

Won't companies get around this rule by just having these contractors become employees of "staffing agencies". Happens all the time in the software world

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#527

Post by ezoe »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129
serjester wrote: post #99

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market. From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving s…

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

In my country, it's illegal for the taxi driver to decline the customer unless it has valid reasons(the customer is violent or threatening, does not satisfy the hygiene standard, road is damaged etc).

I think it's a fair regulation for it will casually lead to the discrimination.

Also, in my country, being a taxi driver requires special license and certified car so Uber/Lyft doesn't offer the service. They don't want to pay the cost of checking if the contractor satisfy the requirements of license and car.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#528

Post by bobloblaw45 »

kyle_martin1 wrote: post #426
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

I worked for SuperShuttle developing their driver mobile app. I can tell you for a fact that a big reason SuperShuttle failed is because the drivers were independent. They would consistently reject low cost trips and wait it out until they got one "mega" trip so that they only need to actually work for about 3 hours/day. Some days they wouldn't take any trips, just hang out in the van playing Flappy Bird. This was a…

Did doordash for a few weeks and discovered that this is exactly how the dashers in the community that made "okay" money operated. They turn down deliveries that didn't pay a certain amount and would sit in their car doing nothing if they had to.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#529

Post by Cthulhu_ »

xapata wrote: post #488
lathiat wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a problem with Taxi drivers as well. Have had friends too close to the airport miss flights because drivers keep rejecting the fare because it goes to drivers near the airport who want a long trip.

I've had taxi drivers yell at me for how close I lived to the airport. Angrily banging the steering wheel. "I waited in line for 2 hours and I get this fucking fare!?" Then they drive maniacally fast, weaving through traffic hoping to catch the tail end of passengers disembarking my flight. Mildly terrifying. Uber and Lyft were so welcome.

Sounds like taxi drivers should be paid by the hour instead of per fare.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#530

Post by jballer »

CarbyAu wrote: post #471
chrisjarvis wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with this, I've always thought ridesharing was rather beautiful in terms of economic efficiency: pair those with extra money but who don't want to drive at that moment with those with extra time who want money. As long as there is adequate education about the all-in costs of car ownership I am all on board. And at scale it reduces traffic (or at least amount of cars in an area).

In ages past my first thoughts upon hearing of Uber was entirely about "matching" as you described. I recall thinking it would be great for adhoc rideshare commuting to/from work. Somewhere it turned into a money sucking business platform. Maybe because it required funds to run the servers required and went off the rails from there?

Or maybe because the supply side is full of drivers doing the job for less pay than they should reasonably agree to, betting on a windfall from AB5?
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