Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#391

Post by bobthepanda » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #341

UncleOxidant wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to a single payer system would unleash a lot of latent entreprenurial activity and free companies of all sizes from having to provide health insurance. Great documentary here on the business case for moving to single payer: http://fixithealthcare.com/

I think part of the problem in the US is that the current status is so bad, that everyone has a different proposed solution. Single payer is also seen as too paternalistic by a large minority of the US, so there is that as well.

The real problem is that the current status is so bad, that those who are relatively better off (probably still bad) are scared of change because they've seen what "worse" looks like and a better system seems mostly aspirational.

There is a reason why ACA messaging from Democrats always included the fact that you could keep your existing insurance if you wanted.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#392

Post by efficax » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

if they can't afford to pay benefits and a decent wage to their drivers then they're just an unsustainable business! glad they "disrupted" transit and made it harder to build good public transit by giving tax-shy politicians an excuse.

And despite the low wages both Uber and Lyft continue to operate at a loss! The business model just doesn't work and no amount of softbank cash can change that.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#393

Post by ironmagma » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #209

ironmagma wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist, but those opportunities exist not in as numerous quantities because they are undercut by Lyft/Uber, which are only able to do so because they are operating unsustainably. The latter just need to either increase their prices to make the rideshare job more profitable and acceptable or, if that’s truly impossible as they suggest, I guess we’ll have to go back to cab rides.

Uber/Lyft are both profitable in many markets. The system is perfectly sustainable. It's the service, not the price, that made the biggest difference for users. And this service requires having thousands of drivers able to start at a moment's notice, which is not viable under an employee-shift driven model.

If it’s so profitable, they should be able to pass on those profits to the drivers. If they were already doing that, we wouldn’t be where we are.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#394

Post by syshum » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

whoisjuan wrote: post #111

subdane wrote: post #31

Am I nuts, or is the heart of this issue really the fact that our healthcare system is built on tying benefits to full time jobs?

I keep paying my health insurance premium at my home country just because the health insurance in the US is completely broken. I feel that if you get seriously sick in the US you're in an almost sure path to financial insolvency. My employer pays probably a shit ton of money for my health insurance and what I get is the most subpar, confusing, broken and sometimes blatantly extortive service ever. I live in Austin an…

>>I live in Austin and sometimes I think if I really need a major procedure it would be just simpler to drive to Mexico

it is amazing what a Free market would bring right? Instead in the US we have this flawed belief that more government is what we need to solve healthcare never understanding that Government is the source of the problem

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#395

Post by manquer » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

shekispeaks wrote: post #354

Lyft is being petty here. I understand that they cannot make all drivers employees, but they could have some drivers on the road and not pulled the rug on users. This goes to say that you cannot trust private companies like Lyft for critical services. The government actually has been transparent about this change and Lyft is acting like a spoilt child, not even willing to try the employee route. Lyft pulling the rug…

The judge’s order literally came last week.

It is not that lyft is striking, their product and process is not ready yet to do full time employees yet.

The folks I spoke to were all doing hectic work trying to build it out , my understanding is they originally planned to do this by November.

Even if the tech is ready , converting 1000’s to folks full time is ton of government paperwork that is going to take time .

They first have to figure out who wants to be full time and who they want to be retain full time .

It is not like they were given a reasonable 6-12 months to comply and they screwed up . Uber is also in the same boat.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#396

Post by murph-almighty » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #330

lefrenchy wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where the gig economy shines, when people want to use it to make extra money on the side or push to achieve financial goals. However, by your own admission you did it because you were "bored" and wanted to make some money. Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. I'm assuming here but you probably had another job and benefits. There are many workers who don't, and are turning to Uber or Lyft j…

> Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. Gig work turning into full time work out of necessity is the band-aid on the bullet wound. The unemployment numbers were down, in large part due to gig work, but that work never should've been counted as real employment. So rather than address the underlying problem with something like the New Deal's Works Progress Administration, which was the real and neces…

I have a strong suspicion that the Works Progress Administration may come about if Biden wins the election. There's a lot of bridges going into disrepair, new transit projects we _should_ pursue- not to say that everyone employed by this program is necessarily qualified to build a bridge, but if the opportunity is there I wouldn't be shocked if it drew unemployed folks.

But again, "if".

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#397

Post by kayfox » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

theplague42 wrote: post #200

rsweeney21 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their business model is on-demand transportation. The business model doesn't work if the workforce is not also on-demand. I don't think that's spin, but maybe society decides that we don't like on-demand businesses.

Does the cab model not work?

Taxis are either independent contractors driving their own or company cars and getting most or part of the fare, or employees paid by the hour who are pushed to get a particular revenue per hour. Yes, the contractors will now have to be employees in California, so that model is gone there.

The former tends to adapt okay to predictable demand, the latter tends to not at all.

Before Lyft and Uber, my usual wait time for a Taxis in the Seattle area was on the order of 45 minutes to an hour. Since the rideshare companies became common, the wait time for taxis has gone down, but its still longer than the wait for Lyft.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#398

Post by fizzled » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

woeirua wrote: post #29

I suspect that California is going to backpedal on this pretty quickly. Uber and Lyft are popular. Going back to taxis is going to be very unpopular. IMO, if the California Republican party was smart they would make this a wedge issue in the next election. "Elect us, and we'll make it possible to use Uber again."

In Portland, Radio Cab has an Android/iOS app. I switched to them once they modernized. In this case, Lyft/Uber caused taxis to improve infrastructure. That's a win.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#399

Post by lmeyerov » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

theplague42 wrote: post #212

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these issues would go away if employers weren't responsible for providing healthcare group plans. But then again Europe also has similar drives to classify Uber/Lyft drivers as full time employees so they are entitled to other benefits and employment securities (but those don't exist in a very strong form in the USA anyways).

Employers are not required to provide health plans. The issue is that Uber provides _some_ employees with health plans while keeping their lower-paid workers classified as contractors, even if they work essentially full-time.

As soon as you're 50+ folks, you're required to provide health insurance. The US system is broken enough that you will do it before then too.

All founders I've talked with about it find it crazy that they're determining the healthcare choices for their team, and it's much worse when they are supporting a diverse team.

"""Fred has 3 kids and cares about their dental, Tim mostly cares about mental health, Alice runs ultramarathons, and Bob just got married. The main things we have in common are we like building cryptocurrency tech and work in similar time zones."""

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#400

Post by scelerat » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

nomel wrote: post #364

malandrew wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the larger the increase of ride sharing services the lower the usage of public transportation so does private car ownership, private bike ownership and bikesharing. Private car ownership externalities overlap greatly with ridesharing. The solution here is congestion pricing for all vehicles except public transportation. You tax what you want less of and what causes the most wear on the systems that need to be maint…

> If we want to people to use public transportation, the solution to that is to make public transportation better than the alternatives There's no better way to burn up al of your free time than by taking public transportation. I've never had the balls to pull out my laptop to try to get some work done...

Maybe if public transit was better funded and managed, more people could get to their jobs without having to pay for a car or a rideshare, saving costs. And more people could have jobs working for the transit agency. And in aggregate you have more employed people with lower daily costs, leading, ultimately, to fewer people out there who need to steal laptops in order to get by.