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Can't you just right click?

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Re: Can't you just right click?

#681

Post by rglullis »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #671
rglullis wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it , it is even worse! I don't mind people that tell me they need, e.g, Photoshop to do their work. I do mind the fact that they don't contribute to any alternative. Just paying the subscription to Adobe and shrugging it off, instead of hedging and contributing to the alternatives? Shame on them. Imagine 10% of every Adobe customer donating 10% annuall…

> If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it, it is even worse! I have seen what happens when people try to help. At best they are ignored. As I've said before, it is my considered opinion that the community is simply not interested in making things better. I would be totally ok with that if they weren't also evengelical. And also, there's only so much time in the day, some of us have higher…

"interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be"

> there's only so much time in the day

Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the issues and proposed improvements.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#682

Post by mlindner »

lucb1e wrote: post #2

This makes me wonder how open source is supposed to work on macOS. People seem to become more and more aware of it and even enterprises that insisted on support contracts can see that they can't get around open source completely anymore. Meanwhile Apple is removing the ability for me to have a pet project without paying an Apple tax. If the message were completely transparent, something like "The developer didn't pay…

You can still disable Gatekeeper with:

sudo spctl --master-disable

This removes all of these dialog boxes entirely.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#683

Post by manquer »

ubermonkey wrote: post #651
manquer wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for more than 10 years I loved using Apple . My first introduction to Apple came during the G5 times in edit studios with Final Cut Pro I would rent those on hourly rate even when it was 30-35% costlier than Avid and premier pro . The project always ended cheaper because Apple was that good . My first computer was Apple the Airs were a great product , I loved the MagSafe port I loved the build quality when they move…

So you're fine with a less polished / higher maintenance desktop OS. Not everyone is. I have absolutely no interest in going to an environment where I can't run native Office, or a decent mail client, etc. And I have less interest in putting up with the garbage fire that is Windows.

I find Linux considerably lesser effort to work with . I need to install Xcode command line tools to install even git . I need a package manager . the decades old gnu utils , the BSD style command order importance, lack of procfs , poor container support all mean I need to be constantly context switch between my local environment and dev/prod .

I don’t need native MS office, with sharepoint and google there is really limited value to run a desktop version .

Perhaps if you are professional publishing there maybe a need, for vast majority of regular office users who are just doing documents / presentations and spreadsheets for limited consumption , there is no real need for native office. The collaborative features online are lot more valuable

One of the reasons I originally choose OS X was exactly office , it was valid 5-10 years back , I needed to be able to talk to developers and management/customers OSX fit that perfectly , it gave the best of both worlds , today using Linux if I download to file to Libreoffice sure the formatting still gets messed up ,however not once in sharepoint has it happened to me and only rarely in google docs

Pre office 2016 , Apple versions of office had all kind of kinks which made it just as annoying to work with sometimes you were forced to keep mentioning your were on Apple version of Office

Everyone ‘s needs are different, if your workflow does not have suitable alternatives you need it sure .

My point is with average hardware and increasingly locked down OS the alternatives keep becoming more attractive .

Don’t get me wrong OS X was/is still great . first time I did OS X upgrade 10-12 years back I was amazed , it did everything on its own , the files I had opened back exactly it felt out of the world ! compared to windows back then you had to format your disk reinstall all your apps and copy your files back .

The application install/uninstall is great no messy over abused Registry needing you to reinstall the OS every 6 months. The UX is still great .

However the other OSes have caught up and Apple is no longer ahead of the curve enough to warrant the effort

Re: Can't you just right click?

#684

Post by mlindner »

enriquto wrote: post #378
coldtea wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any automatic way to tell your software apart from malware? Because that's part of what this mechanism tries to provide...

> Is there any automatic way to tell your software apart from malware? There is no universally agreed-upon definition of malware. One man's operating system is another man's malware. For me, an operating system that "calls home" for each new executable you compile is a crystal clear case of malware. In the case of this article, then, the only malware in question is macOS.

Nothing is calling home when you run a new executable. You're not understanding how gatekeeper works. It works entirely offline without network access.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#685

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

rglullis wrote: post #681
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it, it is even worse! I have seen what happens when people try to help. At best they are ignored. As I've said before, it is my considered opinion that the community is simply not interested in making things better. I would be totally ok with that if they weren't also evengelical. And also, there's only so much time in the day, some of us have higher…

"interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be" > there's only so much time in the day Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the iss…

> "interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be"

Same difference really if our opinions of what constitutes "better" are so drastically opposed.

> Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions.

I have contributed both code and money to projects I think are doing good work. Sadly there are very few of them.

> I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the issues and proposed improvements.

I can say with confidence that most the projects I've donated to have given me absolutely no special treatment just because I contribute money. I wouldn't have it any other way really, issues are issues regardless and they should be fixed with regard to severity, not who has deep pockets.

Hell, that's probably one of the reasons things in Linux land are so ungodly complicated right now: FAANGs are calling the shots because they have the deep pockets.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#686

Post by lordgrenville »

I (a savvy and sophisticated dev who knows all about right-clicking) got stuck with this today with an unsigned binary of a command-line program. Right-click open didn't work since the OS didn't know which program to use to open it, so there was no "open anyway" option. Launching from the Terminal gave me the familiar MALWARE! PRIVACY! pop-up. Solution was to open System Preferences -> Security, click the lock, then below the radio button for "allow apps from App Store/identified developers" there was a button allowing a manual override.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#687

Post by stevefan1999 »

kjksf wrote: post #80
cuddlybacon wrote: post #6

This feature is at about the right spot for me. It is still convenient enough for me to run software I want that isn't signed, but sufficiently obtuse that neither of my parents have figured it out. Given they are both prone to running any executable that any website tells them to download and run, this feature has probably save me several dozen hours of fixing their computers.

Apple has been making things more and more restrictive over a decade now. New versions of mac os introducing new restrictions. Doesn't take a genius to see that their end goal is to make mac os as restrictive as ios. When that happens, will it still be the right spot for you?

And it's right, Apple is more and more being a China

Re: Can't you just right click?

#688

Post by cwhiz »

colonwqbang wrote: post #679
cwhiz wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that hard for you to believe that people like and prefer macOS?? I don’t want to move to Windows or Linux. The time sink is irrelevant. I am a software engineer and I PREFER macOS. So do my coworkers. So do many, but not all, of my friends. So does my spouse. Many of you replying here just seem completely unable to grasp that other people exist, with other thoughts and opinions.

So you would stay loyal to the product no matter what it evolves into? I imagine there's some kind of limit to what you would put up with. Or is your point that these restrictions don't bother you at all? That's fine of course but I'm sure not everyone feels the same way. As someone who never bought any Apple products, I find it harder and harder to see why I would buy one. I have friends who are quite invested Apple…

>So you would stay loyal to the product no matter what it evolves into?

No. My line in the sand is Apple locking down macOS so that I cannot install applications outside of the Mac App Store. These "restrictions" that seem to annoy other people do not bother me. At that point I would just migrate over to Linux and maintain a Mac for any remaining Apple specific dev.

I'm not sure exactly where the line is on mobile. I don't feel restricted by the iOS ecosystem, but I do understand that others might. If there became a time where I wanted to abandon iOS then I would likely just go without a phone or get a flip phone. I refuse to use Android or any product developed by Google.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#689

Post by enriquto »

mlindner wrote: post #684
enriquto wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any automatic way to tell your software apart from malware? There is no universally agreed-upon definition of malware. One man's operating system is another man's malware. For me, an operating system that "calls home" for each new executable you compile is a crystal clear case of malware. In the case of this article, then, the only malware in question is macOS.

Nothing is calling home when you run a new executable. You're not understanding how gatekeeper works. It works entirely offline without network access.

Dude, just try it.

Close your browser and monitor your network traffic. Compile a hello world with a unique text string. Run it. It calls home the first time you run it. Then it doesn't.

If you are not connected to the internet, it does not call home indeed.

Here is a concrete description of this experiment: https://sigpipe.macromates.com/2020/macos-catalina-slow-by-d...

I just reproduced it on a newly installed macOS 10.15.6

Re: Can't you just right click?

#690

Post by rglullis »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #685
rglullis wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be" > there's only so much time in the day Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the iss…

> "interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be" Same difference really if our opinions of what constitutes "better" are so drastically opposed. > Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I have contributed both code and money to projects I think are doing good work. Sadly there are very few of the…

> our opinions of what constitutes "better" are so drastically opposed.

I am not sure I follow. You mentioned somewhere else that Lubuntu was the one that gave you the least problems and that you are now using windows. Coincidentally, Lubuntu is the flavor that looks like the most with older versions of Windows.

To me it looks like your assumption is that anything that does not look like Windows 2000/XP is "worse". If you are starting from this point, don't be surprised if others disagree and ignore you.

(Myself, I've been using Xubuntu for the past 8+ years, but I am really not liking the direction Canonical is taking with snap. Perhaps I will switch to Debian + XFCE when I get a slow weekend but this has nothing to do with desktop issues. It's not perfect but the worst problem I can remember was related to get a blank screen after resuming from sleep, which I solved by changing the screen lock program)

> FAANGs are calling the shots

What the big companies are doing are related to the infrastructure side of things and have nothing to do with the desktop - perhaps except Google and their ChromeOS, but Google's ChromeOS approach is looking each day more and more like turn of the century MS and their "embrace, extend, extinguish".

Anyway, perhaps the issue is that you are conflating "Linux" with "Open Source Desktop" and expecting a central place to solve all solutions?

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