Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#301

Post by manigandham » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

amoitnga wrote: post #267

manigandham wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tired argument. Please name the abusive conditions that actually apply here. AB5 affects more than just ridesharing too. Many writers, artists and other creative professionals are suffering as well. What abuse are they affected by?

you dont get vacation days. you re not paid for national holidays off days. you dont get sick days. you may say it’s what contract is. but without me being able to see where to drive, whom to drive and set price as I wish, without affecting my rating - it’s just talk.

That's not abuse. You work whenever you want, whether it's a holiday or not. That's the whole point of being freelance and applies to any other industry.

And you can set the price. You can't see the destination but you do know the approximate time and direction.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#302

Post by chc » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

BTCOG wrote: post #290

claudeganon wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicare for All is widely popular in the US. The insurance industry, hospitals, and employers who want leverage over workers buy off politicians to prevent it from happening.

Medicare is specifically only for elderly people, not all.

Medicare for All is a proposed law (S.1129 and H.R.1384) that expands Medicare to be a comprehensive single-payer system for all Americans. It has fairly high bipartisan support in polls, but relatively few (and only Democrat) supporters in Congress.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

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Post by Dirlewanger » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #93

gotoeleven wrote: post #8

California has proven itself again and again to be really good at centrally planning the economic activities of individuals so I think this will work out pretty well in the end.

That is why the California economy is collapsing. /s Everybody likes to complain about California. When I was born here it was about 15m people. Now its 40m. If you are unhappy, please leave to a lower cost, lower tax state. People have been predicting California's decline my entire life and the real problem is it can't handle the growth. Also, California has been sucking up employing the young and of mid-west and so…

> If you are unhappy, please leave to a lower cost, lower tax state.

People are, by the millions.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#304

Post by malandrew » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

subsubzero wrote: post #272

malandrew wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always perplexed when people bring this issue up but never discuss the contribution to congestion by people driving their own cars. Yes, you can say that increased congestion from single occupancy vehicles leads to a tragedy of the commons for those on buses. This can be addressed by making bus only lanes (and they should be bus only lanes, not bus and taxi lanes) For the rest of the congestion, there's not much…

I don't think its perplexing at all, the larger the increase of ride sharing services the lower the usage of public transportation[1]. Alot of the SF traffic is not people commuting in from other cites and taking Uber/Lyft to do so. These people by and large take caltrain/muni/corporate shuttles. People that drive in using their own cars would not use lyft/uber due to cost of these services. The problem with lower pu…

> the larger the increase of ride sharing services the lower the usage of public transportation

so does private car ownership, private bike ownership and bikesharing.

Private car ownership externalities overlap greatly with ridesharing. The solution here is congestion pricing for all vehicles except public transportation. You tax what you want less of and what causes the most wear on the systems that need to be maintained.

Humans are free to choose the systems that work best for their needs. If we want to people to use public transportation, the solution to that is to make public transportation better than the alternatives, such as providing for bus only lanes and more routes.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#305

Post by chillacy » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

compycom wrote: post #255

blhack wrote: post #131

Lot of my friends who work in non tech jobs use driving for Uber or Lyft as a way to either get a little extra cash, or bridge themselves across gaps in employment. This would devastate them. Absolutely heartless move on behalf of the California government. Don’t kick the little guys while they’re down to make some political point. It’s not the time.

Uber and Lyft are voluntarily suspending operations to make a political point; they are the ones kicking the little guy while they're down. The fact that these companies can spend 100 million to dismantle the outcome of the political process shows how little power the California government actually has.

Tough to call anything done as voluntary with a gun held up to the head. Their entire business model (which has not been super profitable to say the least) was just made illegal in California.

Life goes on though, probably the Taxi industry is very pleased, many of the full-time drivers will go on to work as Taxi drivers, licensed with hours and all. And I'll just lower my expectations for getting a taxi dispatched within 30 mins outside of the main city.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#306

Post by azinman2 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #230

azinman2 wrote: post #135

Would Lyft/Uber stop operations in CA in the long term? Or is this just a ploy to get people to vote for their proposition? It seems silly to leave money on the table.

If operations are unprofitable then what money are they leaving? However it's likely that without changes, they will just operate in a few core urban regions rather than the widespread coverage they have today.

If it's not profitable to treat those already working 40+ hours a week as an employee, then that's not a great business in the first place. We shouldn't rely on exploiting the lower class in order to provide basic services like transportation.

Personally I think the idea of being a contractor to loosely pick up some extra cash is a great thing, assuming this is effectively an extra job and way less than 40h/week. I don't know how common that actually is -- almost every Lyft/Uber driver I've asked are working 8+ hours, and driving into SF/NYC/DC/LA from a far away location.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#307

Post by georgeecollins » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

dumbfoundded wrote: post #300

gotoeleven wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If California had the weather of South Dakota no one would live there. California is the state version of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple.

If Texas had California's oil, no one would live there.

I think we should not talk about regions of the country like they are sports teams that we root for or against. Texas is very nice with lots of nice people California is very nice with lots of nice people.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#308

Post by LynxInLA » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

bassman9000 wrote: post #250

nemothekid wrote: post #9

When I moved to CA, I put off getting a CA license for years. I always told myself I'd go to the DMV and do the paperwork, then I waited long enough to find out I would have to retake the test, until finally I just resigned to using Uber and Lyft all the time. I never thought I would need it and so I never made it a priority. So this news really sucks, as you haven't been able to schedule DMV appointments at all and…

You can also ride a cab.

Not if you call a cab and they say "we dispatched a driver" and then that driver never shows up. There wasn't accountability with the old system, hopefully Uber/Lyft have forced cab companies to evolve. The apps in some cities are a promising sign but aren't universal.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#309

Post by manigandham » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

tedivm wrote: post #299

dntrkv wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legislation doesn't outright ban those things, but the economics won't work out at scale if Uber has to classify the drivers as employees. Do you want low-commitment employment (from both sides) or do you want employee benefits. You can't have both.

If the economics of Uber don't work when Uber is responsible for treating their drivers right, giving them a minimum wage, and offering benefits- then it sounds like their business model is simply exploiting the working class.

You are using a completely subjective opinion of "treating their drivers right". Have you spoken to many drivers about what they actually want?

What do you think independent contractor means? Do you think that nobody should be independent then? Do you realize that full-time driving jobs already exist? Why do you presume that drivers can't make this choice for themselves? Why can't the people who are unhappy with the earnings just stop driving? Why is it better for both riders and drivers to lose this service and income by forced legislation when it already works fine for millions?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#310

Post by lefrenchy » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #6

I used to drive for Uber, a few hours a week during my downtime when I was bored and had nothing better to do. The earnings weren’t great, but it was very helpful as an extra. I had a fuel efficient car and kept track of all my expenses for deductions and made above minimum wage. I’ve met plenty of lovely and fascinating people and had great, enjoyable conversations. I barely had any issues with riders. This extra in…

This is where the gig economy shines, when people want to use it to make extra money on the side or push to achieve financial goals. However, by your own admission you did it because you were "bored" and wanted to make some money.

Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. I'm assuming here but you probably had another job and benefits. There are many workers who don't, and are turning to Uber or Lyft just to put food on the table and are being forced into working without paid vacation, sick leave, or benefits simply because they have no other options.

I think corporations taking advantages of the imbalances is a race to the bottom. I believe we should find a 21st century approach to fixing these imbalances so that we don't take opportunities like yours away, but also work to protect labor rights/power that has been much eroded in the last decades.