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Can't you just right click?

lapcatsoftware.com

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Re: Can't you just right click?

#671

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

rglullis wrote: post #665
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could give them the benefit of the doubt that they know exactly the trade-off they were making, and perhaps even wish they didn't have to go the route they did, but the alternative just isn't there yet?

If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it , it is even worse! I don't mind people that tell me they need, e.g, Photoshop to do their work. I do mind the fact that they don't contribute to any alternative. Just paying the subscription to Adobe and shrugging it off, instead of hedging and contributing to the alternatives? Shame on them. Imagine 10% of every Adobe customer donating 10% annuall…

> If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it, it is even worse!

I have seen what happens when people try to help. At best they are ignored. As I've said before, it is my considered opinion that the community is simply not interested in making things better. I would be totally ok with that if they weren't also evengelical.

And also, there's only so much time in the day, some of us have higher priorities than building replacement software for stuff that already exists.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#672

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

adriancr wrote: post #669
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 'Linux Desktop' people that you say are targeting things for better or worse put in time to build free products, if you don't like some switch to others or contribute. I did. I used to run Linux on 4/5 of my desktops and now that is down to 1/5, and only because I haven't turned that one on in 6 months. My complaints are made no less invalid by that. Contributing to Linux Desktop is, in my considered opinion, a…

what do you use now then and how happy are you with that? I for one am the reverse, tried recently using windows and it just got in the way, plus felt like I was being spied on like old times under communism... Tried last year MacOS/macbook but I can't even move the titlebar to the right... Plus Apple restricting everything I can do... Plus Macbook couldn't install Linux on it, crappy keyboard, overheating, easiest r…

I used Lubuntu. I tried many other distros, probably several you never heard of, but Lubuntu was consistently the most tolerable.

I'm pretty much Windows-only at this point. It definitely has its flaws, and it is definitely getting worse as the new "lets make everything suck as bad as the web" culture takes hold, but I still find that it works with me much more often than against me which is more than I can say for the way Linux desktops work.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#673

Post by Perseids »

simonh wrote: post #659
_qulr wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Near monopoly power. We are talking about Macs still, right? The problem is that there's only one Apple Developer Program for both iOS and macOS. If you get kicked out of the developer program for reasons related to the iOS App Store, you're also kicked out of independent Mac distribution outside the App Store. You no longer have true independence on the Mac either.

Well, you're using someone else's products (dev tools, compilers, OS libraries) you buy and license from them under certain commercial terms. If you don't like the terms, don't buy them. And to be crystal clear, that's the approach I am personally going to take. I carved off a TB partition and installed Windows 10 and WSL 2 on my new iMac and it runs like a dream. I still need MacOS, and I'll be installing Virtualbox…

> If you don't like the terms, don't buy them.

Do that. I do so as well. But as a rule for society it seldomly works. Too few people are willing or knowledgeable enough to withstand the lure of their individual short term benefit as opposed to the collective cost of their action. I mean, this very feature we are talking about is itself a protection of users against their short term desire: "Let me run this application, I want to see the dancing bunnies" [1] And people fail to do so, even though the downsides are personally and sometimes very immediate. They could research who distributes the file, calculate the trade-off between the remaining uncertainty and the expected reward and come to a rational decision. Or they could just click! Just accept those terms and conditions. Just enter their credit card number on the apple developer product page to get to what they want. And that's what most people do most of the time.

It's for this coordination and collective bargaining problem that we need to regulate the shit out of anything that reaches a certain size.

[1] https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-dancing-bunnies-problem/

Re: Can't you just right click?

#674

Post by mlindner »

kjksf wrote: post #80
cuddlybacon wrote: post #6

This feature is at about the right spot for me. It is still convenient enough for me to run software I want that isn't signed, but sufficiently obtuse that neither of my parents have figured it out. Given they are both prone to running any executable that any website tells them to download and run, this feature has probably save me several dozen hours of fixing their computers.

Apple has been making things more and more restrictive over a decade now. New versions of mac os introducing new restrictions. Doesn't take a genius to see that their end goal is to make mac os as restrictive as ios. When that happens, will it still be the right spot for you?

Corporations don't sign the apps they run on company-owned computers all the time. This isn't going away unless Apple wants to dump the very valuable business customers. You don't need to worry.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#675

Post by aaomidi »

FabHK wrote: post #268
aaomidi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any open source developer? Do you know how much $100 is in Iran?

> Do you know how much $100 is in Iran? Much less than a Mac that you need to develop macOS software.

With a laptop you're getting something worthwhile out of it, a physical object that can last you for years.

With a gate like the developer account that's far less possible.

It's also easy to buy a mac laptop from the blackmarket in Iran (since Apple can't legally export their laptops there), but you can't really do that with a developer account.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#676

Post by mlindner »

art4ur wrote: post #311
nickspag wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe one of the main security benefits of these requirements are ensuring a binary hasn't been altered maliciously, or otherwise I guess. Not preventing outright malicious applications. Also so the os doesn't have to repeatedly rescan apps, etc.

It's like sha256sum but cost $99 a year.

sha256sum generates a sum, you still need to store that sum somewhere that isn't controlled by the malware creator or they can just change the sum too.

All major Linux distros for example still have no viable way of creating signed programs or anything like Gatekeeper.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#677

Post by mlindner »

cma wrote: post #117
saagarjha wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, this just means all binaries need codesign --sign - run on them before they will run. You don't need to pay to do this, so it's a minor annoyance rather than Apple centralizing control of app distribution.

Does it tie them to your Apple ID, or is it a key you can keep totally private from Apple?

No it doesn't. Apple ID is not involved in this at all. This is much ado about nothing.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#678

Post by mlindner »

ineedasername wrote: post #213
cuddlybacon wrote: post #6

This feature is at about the right spot for me. It is still convenient enough for me to run software I want that isn't signed, but sufficiently obtuse that neither of my parents have figured it out. Given they are both prone to running any executable that any website tells them to download and run, this feature has probably save me several dozen hours of fixing their computers.

From the article, it seems like things have gradually become more & more restrictive though. My interpretation is that Apple is gradually shifting macOS to the same application distribution model as iOS: Complete walled garden, attempts to bypass are against ToS, actively closed off with every update, and warranty-breaking. However my impression is also that it's mostly non Mac users who are concerned with this, so i…

> From the article, it seems like things have gradually become more & more restrictive though. My interpretation is that Apple is gradually shifting macOS to the same application distribution model as iOS: Complete walled garden, attempts to bypass are against ToS, actively closed off with every update, and warranty-breaking.

Nothing has really changed in this article though. You can still run software just as before.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#679

Post by colonwqbang »

cwhiz wrote: post #574
vladvasiliu wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh come now, there are millions and millions of professionals using macOS to do work every single day. Right, and how many of those are using macOS because they're "forced" to, as a sibling suggests, or simply by force of habit? Moving from macOS to Linux or Windows (or from any one OS to any other, really) does require some time. It's not necessarily difficult, but it still takes time. Time that the same professio…

Is it really that hard for you to believe that people like and prefer macOS?? I don’t want to move to Windows or Linux. The time sink is irrelevant. I am a software engineer and I PREFER macOS. So do my coworkers. So do many, but not all, of my friends. So does my spouse. Many of you replying here just seem completely unable to grasp that other people exist, with other thoughts and opinions.

So you would stay loyal to the product no matter what it evolves into? I imagine there's some kind of limit to what you would put up with. Or is your point that these restrictions don't bother you at all? That's fine of course but I'm sure not everyone feels the same way.

As someone who never bought any Apple products, I find it harder and harder to see why I would buy one. I have friends who are quite invested Apple owners who say they will most likely not buy Apple again because of the way the product has changed for the worse (in their eyes).

Re: Can't you just right click?

#680

Post by adriancr »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #671
rglullis wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it , it is even worse! I don't mind people that tell me they need, e.g, Photoshop to do their work. I do mind the fact that they don't contribute to any alternative. Just paying the subscription to Adobe and shrugging it off, instead of hedging and contributing to the alternatives? Shame on them. Imagine 10% of every Adobe customer donating 10% annuall…

> If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it, it is even worse! I have seen what happens when people try to help. At best they are ignored. As I've said before, it is my considered opinion that the community is simply not interested in making things better. I would be totally ok with that if they weren't also evengelical. And also, there's only so much time in the day, some of us have higher…

There are projects and projects, some I got ignored as well with patch and bug info provided, others reviewed/integrated in a few days (mozilla/rust) or told I was wrong and bugs I reported were fixed another way
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