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Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

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Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The State of California doesn't care about workers, they care about the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars they want from payroll and unemployment taxes, in addition to revenue from automatic withholdings for people whom would otherwise be below the reporting limit.

I think it's reasonable for a government to crack down on businesses where the entire operational structure is designed to subvert that government's tax code and regulations.

Who do you think ends up paying that money? Uber/Lyft? Not a chance! This cost always gets passed down the the individuals in the form of smaller cuts of the pie.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#292

We had this same thing happen in Austin when Uber and Lyft pulled out after having a hissy fit about fingerprinting and background checks and not parking in the bus lanes. As soon as they pulled out half a dozen alternatives sprung up that paid better (I always used Ride Austin, a not-for-profit). If you're a rider just take the bus, bike, or get any other cab service (seriously, they all have apps now and they maint…

I read RideAustin was going to shut down[1] this year and so did Fasten and Fare a few years ago

[1] https://communityimpact.com/austin/central-austin/impacts/20....

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#293

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

In the US we pay hundreds of dollars in monthly medical premiums, thousands in deductibles per year, and still need to live in fear of surprise bankruptcy-level bills arriving if god forbid you collapse and need an emergency procedure at the closest out-of-network facility. Absolute insanity. Yet changing this at a fundamental level is somehow considered radical, nothing we can do etc., except what every other wester…

> Yet changing this at a fundamental level is somehow considered radical, nothing we can do etc., except what every other western country has already done.

Except in the US wants to do what "every other western country has already done," which is to use payroll taxes on the middle class to subsidize mandatory health insurance or pay for a state-run system. Nobody in the US is actually serious about universal healthcare, except the folks who want to fix the ACA. Even Sanders promises not to raise taxes on people making below $250,000. If that's the promise, then all the other stuff is just talk, because the revenue can't be there to pay for any of it.

Warren actually got close to a plan for accomplishing universal healthcare without raising middle class taxes, and it only proves what a complete farce that is. It features:

- A wealth tax that goes up to 6%, four times higher than the 1.5% wealth taxes that Sweden and France abandoned (and most OECD countries never had)

- Corporate taxes around 35-39%, higher than Sweden, France, Germany, Denmark, etc.

- Capital gains taxed at the income rate, with a 70% top rate

Each of those policies individually would be outside the mainstream of the OECD. But under Warren's plan, you'd need all of these in combination just to raise half the money needed for Medicare for All.

So Sweden has corporate taxes around 22%, capital gains taxed at a flat 30%, and a top income tax rate of about 52% depending on municipality. It abandoned its wealth tax recently. Under Warren, the United States would have corporate taxes at 35% + the state rate (total 44% in California), a wealth tax going up to 6%, and a top marginal tax rate on capital gains of 70%.

Obviously we'd never do that, which shows you how it was never a serious proposal.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, owning your own car and using it for regular driving is a luxury. Lyft/Uber is cheaper and more convenient, all costs considered.

The problem in SF is that Uber/Lyft has become some convenient that its been diverting people from transit and putting them into single occupant cars (the driver doens't count). Much of the traffic congestion is coming from Uber/Lyft

I think some kind of SF congestion tax, with proceeds to benefit public transit infrastructure, would be appropriate.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#295
post #62

> the rest would have scheduled shifts, and capped hourly earnings. I don't really understand why this is necessary. Can't there still be flexible arrangements with drivers simply clocking their work and then getting some kind of salary derived from that? Can't they still get paid bonuses for driving in particularly unwanted hours? Sure, this would be a complex contract, but I don't see how this is impossible. But I'…

Without scheduled shifts, drivers will purposefully all sign up for the same shift to induce supply overflow. In this situation, drivers can game the flexibility of the system to collect a paycheck while sitting in their cars doing nothing. Even if drivers don't game the system, there will always be natural imbalance between supply and demand. Surge bonuses can mitigate this imbalance, but scheduling shifts is the mo…

Spitballing here:

Option 1: Deny any attempts to "clock in" whenever the number of drivers waiting in a region exceeds a certain density.

Option 2: Your shift starts when you pick up a passenger, and ends when you drop them off. (I have no idea whether this actually meets the state's requirements. I do suspect that there exists an equally clever solution that will work.)

Uber and friends built their entire businesses in working around existing laws. I'm sure they can figure out how to navigate the new laws.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefited Voters in the US are already paying for healthcare for all, plus they are paying extra to support an entire healthcare insurance industry. The USA doesn't (generally) let people die if they can't afford healthcare (people may be driven into bankruptcy, but they won't be left to die), so those costs are al…

> Voters in the US are already paying for healthcare for all I've been living in the US for almost 7 years, and this is news to me. As far as I understand, Medicare only applies to people who are 65+ years old, and Medicaid only applies to families with certain income (relative to family size). What did I miss? > The USA doesn't (generally) let people die if they can't afford healthcare (people may be driven into ban…

I think the previous poster may be referring to use of emergency services by people without health insurance. Which is an indirect tax to voters anyways

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#297
post #15

When Tesla/Waymo/Uber/Lyft roll out actual self-driving technology in the future and people complain "robots are taking our jobs!" we can point to this legislation and say "actually, no, it was the politicians"

Well, actually it was the margins that did it, but finance can be a little abstract when you're populist.

That's interesting since Craigslist has operated a rideshare marketplace for 20+ years and runs at an 80% profit margin. They've also never ran afoul of contractor vs. employee scrutiny.

Could it be that perhaps Uber and Lyft are simply poorly ran organizations who only excel at burning VC money?

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The State of California doesn't care about workers, they care about the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars they want from payroll and unemployment taxes, in addition to revenue from automatic withholdings for people whom would otherwise be below the reporting limit.

I think it's reasonable for a government to crack down on businesses where the entire operational structure is designed to subvert that government's tax code and regulations.

SCOTUS came to a different conclusion in Gregory v Helvering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_v._Helvering

Government doesn't exist to collect taxes. They are there to provide governance. Taxes are a necessary evil that should be kept to a minimum to provide the service of governance.

If someone can come up with a legal operational structure that gets around taxes then that the government didn't do its job.

It's only easy to get around taxes when the taxes aren't closely tied to the service the government is providing. i.e. when you taxing one individual or business for a service provided to other individuals or businesses.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#299
post #262
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AB5 left that flexibility in place. It allows for flexible hours and the ability to pick and choose the rides they accept. Nothing about this legislation or the court case before it took that flexibility away. Nothing about it requires people to be "full time" either.

The legislation doesn't outright ban those things, but the economics won't work out at scale if Uber has to classify the drivers as employees. Do you want low-commitment employment (from both sides) or do you want employee benefits. You can't have both.

If the economics of Uber don't work when Uber is responsible for treating their drivers right, giving them a minimum wage, and offering benefits- then it sounds like their business model is simply exploiting the working class.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why the California economy is collapsing. /s Everybody likes to complain about California. When I was born here it was about 15m people. Now its 40m. If you are unhappy, please leave to a lower cost, lower tax state. People have been predicting California's decline my entire life and the real problem is it can't handle the growth. Also, California has been sucking up employing the young and of mid-west and so…

If California had the weather of South Dakota no one would live there. California is the state version of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple.

If Texas had California's oil, no one would live there.
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