Rideshare operations are being suspended in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#281

Post by smallgovt » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

mqus wrote: post #236

smallgovt wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers will still take advantage of such a system. Whenever a market is over-supplied, drivers will sign in to collect their free "on-call duty" checks for doing nothing.

That's what contracts are for. Let's say that you can only pass on some small amount of rides or your on-call duty is terminated. Or go further and state in your contract that you have to take rides if you're on on-call duty. If you have too many drivers, don't 'hire' more. If you have too few riders on the important times, increase the bonus. There are all kinds of adjustments you can make. Another thing: you don't…

Ultimately, scheduling shifts is going to be both easier to manage and more cost efficient than what you're suggesting. Uber has a good idea of how many drivers they need at any given time. This ideal distribution of supply will never align perfectly with the supply pool's natural scheduling preferences. You can try to use economic incentives to force these two distributions to overlap, or you can just exert control (that you rightfully have over employees) and force your employees to work when you need them.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#282

Post by manigandham » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

mbesto wrote: post #216

manigandham wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing this to poor laborers held hostage? Drivers are not forced into anything. They apply and can quit anytime. Earnings and fares are completely transparent. Their schedule is determined by them. Where's the exploitation? Have you ever driven for Uber? I find it odd that so many people claim to know better for others without any experience of the situation.

Laborers in India/Pakistan were not forced to fly to UAE to take the job, but they did anyway. > Have you ever driven for Uber? I find it odd that so many people claim to know better for others without any experience of the situation. I have not, but calculating the economics is pretty damn simple, and their earnings are shit (most drivers dont take into account taxes, car costs, gas, car depreciation, etc.). I think…

Again, having your wages and passport stolen is not "freely" working and completely incomparable to ridesharing.

Earnings vary wildy by person. Some people do great, others don't. There's no universal calculation. Ridesharing has always been about flexibility, not full-time employment, even though some people work full-time hours.

There are numerous other driving jobs if you wanted employment instead of being independent. Perhaps suggesting that instead of changing the law for everyone else would be the better option.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#283

Post by CodeMage » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #232

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefited Voters in the US are already paying for healthcare for all, plus they are paying extra to support an entire healthcare insurance industry. The USA doesn't (generally) let people die if they can't afford healthcare (people may be driven into bankruptcy, but they won't be left to die), so those costs are al…

> Voters in the US are already paying for healthcare for all

I've been living in the US for almost 7 years, and this is news to me. As far as I understand, Medicare only applies to people who are 65+ years old, and Medicaid only applies to families with certain income (relative to family size). What did I miss?

> The USA doesn't (generally) let people die if they can't afford healthcare (people may be driven into bankruptcy, but they won't be left to die), so those costs are all getting paid by the public.

As COVID-19 has demonstrated quite effectively, death is not the only outcome to focus on. Also, driving a person into bankruptcy or otherwise ruining their future is not what I would call "healthcare paid for by everyone".

I am sincerely hoping that I have missed something in your arguments.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#284

Post by lhorie » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

compycom wrote: post #255

blhack wrote: post #131

Lot of my friends who work in non tech jobs use driving for Uber or Lyft as a way to either get a little extra cash, or bridge themselves across gaps in employment. This would devastate them. Absolutely heartless move on behalf of the California government. Don’t kick the little guys while they’re down to make some political point. It’s not the time.

Uber and Lyft are voluntarily suspending operations to make a political point; they are the ones kicking the little guy while they're down. The fact that these companies can spend 100 million to dismantle the outcome of the political process shows how little power the California government actually has.

I was under the impression they're planning on suspending operations because it would be illegal for drivers to operate as contractors come tomorrow. Their political stance is manifested in prop 22, but the shutdown is for compliance w/ the law.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#285

Post by BTCOG » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

HumblyTossed wrote: post #172

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

Hasn't helped that people still view getting a job "with benefits" as some kind of badge of honor. This leads to a not small amount of people feeling that if you don't have a job "with benefits" you don't deserve any.

I love paying $1,300 a month for my health benefits I use a few times a year. What a great badge of honor. Oh, but wait, there's more! I can also pay hundreds of dollars out of my pocket at each visit to a clinic or dentist!

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#286

Post by x3n0ph3n3 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

MAGZine wrote: post #166

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not lazy, it's _greedy_. The state is only interesting in getting a share of the Uber/Lyft pie via payroll and unemployment taxes. They would also get automatic deduction of taxes from peoples' paychecks who would otherwise be under the reporting limit.

Independent contractors pay both sides of the payroll tax, don't they? So there's no greed there. Unemployment is a different case, but here, it would actually make the state liable for more money—it would be a pretty weird greed situation.

> Independent contractors pay both sides of the payroll tax, don't they? So there's no greed there.

Not if they are under the reporting limit, which many drivers are.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#287

Post by HumblyTossed » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

Androider wrote: post #214

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

In the US we pay hundreds of dollars in monthly medical premiums, thousands in deductibles per year, and still need to live in fear of surprise bankruptcy-level bills arriving if god forbid you collapse and need an emergency procedure at the closest out-of-network facility. Absolute insanity. Yet changing this at a fundamental level is somehow considered radical, nothing we can do etc., except what every other wester…

> ... and still need to live in fear of surprise bankruptcy-level bills arriving if god forbid you collapse and need an emergency procedure at the closest out-of-network facility.

I don't know why this isn't illegal. You can go from living comfortably to living in poverty even though you held up your end of the contract except for that last time when you were not even conscious.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#288

Post by svrb » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

subdane wrote: post #31

Am I nuts, or is the heart of this issue really the fact that our healthcare system is built on tying benefits to full time jobs?

That would not be an issue at all if anticompetitive licensure requirements hasn't driven up healthcare prices to insane levels.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#289

Post by vmception » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

apta wrote: post #159

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

> Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. There is more than enough money to go around, it's that there is a lot of it being wasted. The government and states failed to provide a good taxation and spending model. It's not the issue of the voters not willing to pay for it.

Honestly even a risk of hyperinflation paying for everything with dollar creation would still leave a healthier more productive population in its wake.

Re: Rideshare operations are being suspended in California

#290

Post by BTCOG » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #113

lotsofpulp wrote: post #72

Yes, voters in the US want to give people education, healthcare, and unemployment (or basic income-ish) benefits. Voters in the US also don’t want to pay for any of this. Hence, the politicians that get elected are ones that give people education via student loans, and healthcare/unemployment benefits tied to employer/employment status. Those politicians get to claim they helped people, and they get to claim they kep…

Medicare for All is widely popular in the US. The insurance industry, hospitals, and employers who want leverage over workers buy off politicians to prevent it from happening.

Medicare is specifically only for elderly people, not all.