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Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

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Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#411

Post by dredmorbius »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #354
andrelayer wrote: post #332

I think a lot of people in this discussion are pitting the argument at people prioritizing their individual choices over the collective health of the community. I think that is a very singular framing from one side. A lot of people I know just believe that the virus itself is not as deadly as the reaction warrants. The infectious mortality rate of Covid is at best twice that of the normal flu, which isn't nothing and…

Not "possible depression". Depression. The economy crashed. It's over. The government's been buying the stock market to prop everything up. All the numbers you see are fabricated. The market never recovered from the initial crash. Last I checked a 3rd of Americans aren't paying rent now? It's going to explode dude.

Much of the fall in activity is independent of announced quarantine measures. People simply stopped engaging in commercial activity.

This appears across multiple states in the US and in multiple countries.

Restaurant, cinema, theatre, and travel bookings most especially.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#412

Post by abduhl »

polote wrote: post #390
cowpig wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty rational for someone to understand that and make personal choices... No, it's not; it's arrogant. All of the epidemiologists and experts seem to think otherwise. What do you know that they don't? So far 172,000 people have died in the US due to Coronavirus, directly[1]. The actual number of people who have died, if you factor in the effect of the virus on infrastructure and missed diagnoses is about dou…

This is not the issue. Best case in term of covid related death is to keep everyone at home, no freedom and get food delivery directly at the door Worst case, is to do as nothing happened There are a spectrum of possible responses. But we have to accept that some people are going to die if we want other to live. Each group can put the cursor where it wants, but you can't have, no death and complete freedom. Some peop…

This post highlights my favorite part of the keep everyone home argument: "get food delivery directly at the door."

Who delivers the food if we keep everyone home? There is a subtle classist underpinning to the entire "Stay The Fuck Home" message which really shows how little people value others, especially lower-class (food delivery) or blue collar (food supply) workers. Everyone needs to stay home, except for the deplorables that will grow, process, and serve food directly to my door.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#413

Post by alistairSH »

Jommi wrote: post #115
juliansimioni wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what would really cause you to lose muscle? Getting a bad (or even mild) case of COVID. I'm an athlete myself so I get it. Working out is important. But people are reporting that they are not back to 100% even _months_ after the primary symptoms of COVID are gone. And health professionals are saying that it's very possible to lose things like lung capacity PERMANENTLY. Honestly that scares me more than the i…

You're just again repeating this same unscientific fearmongering as everyone else. Yes, there are possible outcomes that are absolutely terrible and potentially even permanent! Nobody is debating this. However, what we need to have a real and fact-based discussion is that how prevalent these outcomes are, what are they based on, and what groups are most affected. Then we as a society can come together and choose what…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-...

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#414

Post by eric_b »

Where I live gyms have been open for some time. There's been no outbreaks at fitness facilities thus far in my state. I have friends in various countries in Europe who also lift regularly and their fitness facilities have been open for months with no issues.

As always, a dose of perspective is necessary.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#415

Post by polote »

nemothekid wrote: post #377
polote wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rest of the (developed, and many underdeveloped) world dealt with it and are moving on. I'm not really sure on that, lets take greece, which was praised for their strategy (I was in greece during the lockdown). They didnt have a strategy, they just locked down before there was an outbreak and blocked flights, so no spread. Now they have an outbreak because they stopped all there restrictions. They were just luc…

> The smartest country of all, is Sweden, never locked down, explained to citizen the situation. Managed to get the situation under control without any lockdown, and probably will reach herd immunity before anyone else. Time will tell this is too soon to judge, but they seem well positioned for winning I keep seeing this narrative but I can never find the data to support it. When you look at the data, Sweden has the…

The metric by which it's doing better, is freedom. Nobody has been forced to change their lifestyle, if they did, thats because they decided so.

The number of case is under control [1], almost no death now (and not hiding after a lockdown, really no death) so probably less death in the future compared to those countries

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToS...

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#416

Post by dijit »

bazzert wrote: post #386
cowpig wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty rational for someone to understand that and make personal choices... No, it's not; it's arrogant. All of the epidemiologists and experts seem to think otherwise. What do you know that they don't? So far 172,000 people have died in the US due to Coronavirus, directly[1]. The actual number of people who have died, if you factor in the effect of the virus on infrastructure and missed diagnoses is about dou…

>> We're approaching the total death toll of World War II[3]. assuming you mean the US death toll also bear in mind the median age of WW II casualties was something like 26; while the median age for covid victims is 75+. Not to diminish the latter but they are very different.

> while the median age for covid victims is 75+.

You mean 48.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6924e2-H.pdf

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#417

Post by Normal_gaussian »

reaperducer wrote: post #63

It's not just gyms. It's underground bars, hair salons, hot stone yoga joints, and all kinds of things. While the hair salons were closed, my wife's hairdresser was texting her every three days to get her into her underground makeshift totally illegal hair place. And slightly realated, quarantines don't work when people aren't actually quarantined. There was an article in the newspaper last week or the week before ab…

Quarantine without a cage works pretty well if you aren't forced to choose between societal health and financial ruin.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#418

Post by alistairSH »

jdhn wrote: post #379
alistairSH wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...We are now on month 7... And if people had actually sheltered in place back in March, we might be opening back up (or opening with fewer COVID clusters).

I don't believe this for a second. The total number of people that managed to contract it in New Zealand within the last week was under 10, and they locked down an entire city because of it.

So you're saying the lockdown worked?

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#419

Post by ben7799 »

andrelayer wrote: post #332

I think a lot of people in this discussion are pitting the argument at people prioritizing their individual choices over the collective health of the community. I think that is a very singular framing from one side. A lot of people I know just believe that the virus itself is not as deadly as the reaction warrants. The infectious mortality rate of Covid is at best twice that of the normal flu, which isn't nothing and…

It's maybe rational if you're an Ayn Rand Objectivist and you think the older people you infect who die are not worth your time and energy to keep safe.

It's very much a selfish prioritization of the individual above everyone else to think you're under 30 so no precautions need to be taken even though someone under 30 is perfectly capable of passing it on to a whole bunch more people who might be older & vulnerable.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#420

Post by cowpig »

bazzert wrote: post #386
cowpig wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty rational for someone to understand that and make personal choices... No, it's not; it's arrogant. All of the epidemiologists and experts seem to think otherwise. What do you know that they don't? So far 172,000 people have died in the US due to Coronavirus, directly[1]. The actual number of people who have died, if you factor in the effect of the virus on infrastructure and missed diagnoses is about dou…

>> We're approaching the total death toll of World War II[3]. assuming you mean the US death toll also bear in mind the median age of WW II casualties was something like 26; while the median age for covid victims is 75+. Not to diminish the latter but they are very different.

Does your figure include people who couldn't get medical attention because the health system is completely overwhelmed?

Is it possible there are other issues you're not aware of, and that the people who spend their lives studying and preparing for these situations are?

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