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Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

npr.org

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Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#91

Post by Swizec »

Ansil849 wrote: post #29

This seems incredibly dangerous. Are the speakeasy gyms requiring negative COVID tests? Are they doing temperature screenings upon entry? How diligently are they sanitizing equipment? How well ventilated are these various areas? Why are people ignoring all of these risks, what kind of threat model do they have?

I go to a boxing class in the park. We meet 2x/week and train together. You can’t distance while boxing.

Here’s my threat model:

- we’re all young, healthy, and in good shape

- we all wear masks during normal life, some of us even while training

- we all social distance and follow the right protocols outside of boxing

- it’s always the same group of people

- 2x/week seems like low enough frequency that exposure won’t add up

- we stay home or even cancel class when someone feels off

- we’re outside so it’s nice and windy

- we keep distance when not punching each other and groups of 2 are kept far apart

So far so good. It feels like an acceptable level of risk to me.

Going to the farmer’s market (with masks) every week is probably way more risky than the boxing class.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#92

Post by hammock »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #88
hammock wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoting because it's none of your business. Honest question - and if you choose to downvote me I'd ask you extend me the same courtesy you asked for - how is a gymgoer endangering you, if you are staying 6ft from all others, wearing a mask, washing your hands and not touching your face?

Thanks very much for explaining! I'm not entirely sure which part of my comment you're arguing against: > How is a gymgoer endangering you, if you are staying 6ft from all others, wearing a mask, washing your hands and not touching your face? Are you saying that as long as the measures you listed are followed, any additional shutdowns required by the local/state government are unreasonable and are okay to ignore? If…

>Are you saying that as long as the measures you listed are followed, any additional shutdowns required by the local/state government are unreasonable and are okay to ignore?

Yes. How does a government shutdown help me, if I'm already isolated?

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#93

Post by dqpb »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #53
Ansil849 wrote: post #29

This seems incredibly dangerous. Are the speakeasy gyms requiring negative COVID tests? Are they doing temperature screenings upon entry? How diligently are they sanitizing equipment? How well ventilated are these various areas? Why are people ignoring all of these risks, what kind of threat model do they have?

I'd guess the threat model is something like: relatively low local disease prevalence rate, the likelihood that infected people show up to workout is lower than other activities like office-work, and relatively low likelihood of personal adverse outcomes in someone healthy enough to be going to an underground gym. Further, there are major benefits to psychological state, social/emotional state, mental acuity, health,…

Most people don’t know how to monitor the local disease prevalence rate.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#94

Post by ls612 »

reaperducer wrote: post #78
dragosmocrii wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. I also played a couple games of volleyball and tennis, and I'm so clumsy I'm embarrassed I lost control of my body. Meanwhile, thr local gyms havr silly rules to restrict people's access...

The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. It's not about you. It's about everyone else. How can someone be so selfish and self-absorbed that they think their "muscle mass" is more important than the health of hundreds or thousands of other people? I know this question may violate some HN policy, but I can…

This same argument can be made about any infectious disease season. The only difference is a matter of degree. This virus is probably ~5 times as bad as the flu so we should spend ~5 times as much to mitigate the externalities. Not ~500 times as much like we have.

I fear that after this every time there's a bad flu season we will see this same shit again because "think of the most vulnerable among us, you're literally killing them!!"

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#95

Post by juliansimioni »

dragosmocrii wrote: post #62
matz1 wrote: post #42

Bad policies deserve to be violated. > Please consider reporting the details to the appropriate authorities No, on the contrary I'm encouraging people to go out and resume their normal activities.

This. The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. I also played a couple games of volleyball and tennis, and I'm so clumsy I'm embarrassed I lost control of my body. Meanwhile, thr local gyms havr silly rules to restrict people's access...

You know what would really cause you to lose muscle? Getting a bad (or even mild) case of COVID.

I'm an athlete myself so I get it. Working out is important. But people are reporting that they are not back to 100% even _months_ after the primary symptoms of COVID are gone. And health professionals are saying that it's very possible to lose things like lung capacity PERMANENTLY. Honestly that scares me more than the idea of being badly sick for 1-2 months. I worked hard to make my lungs strong.

Also, of course, the whole concept of responsibility to our communities in a global pandemic is even more important, but an appeal to self-interest is there as well.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#96

Post by yborg »

jdminhbg wrote: post #33
mikestew wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the description of the folks that invaded one person's private speakeasy gym: "gym bros" who were described as "grunting and using all the equipment, taking selfies in the mirror, flexing their triceps". I'm guessing there's more to it than just getting pumped, perhaps there's an audience component, too.

Those passages said a lot more about NPR and its audience than the gym-goers, really.

They were quoting a gym-goer.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#97

Post by ReptileMan »

oarsinsync wrote: post #87
ReptileMan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if the polices were wrong? I have looked at the data and came to the conclusion that the danger from covid is tiny (to see how low - check qatar - probably the country with most extensive testing) and preventing is totally not worth it the sacrifices and damage to society. Qatar has 44000 cases per 1m pop and 69 deaths per 1m. That is not much higher than flu.

What else is Qatar doing? What does Qatar do to a person who is confirmed infected? Does the same action occur to someone with the flu? What is Qatar asking it's population to do differently today, compared to this time a year ago? Does that have any meaningful impact on transmission rates?

It's pretty locked down. You have an app that unless it's says healthy you are not allowed into any public place.

I illustrated it as a place in which there is so much mass testing that the mortality figures are more fact than fiction.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#98

Post by parliament32 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #6

I don't get it. Unless you're training for a very specific purpose (like an MMA fight or football season), why do you need specific indoor gym equipment? Shelter in place orders are largely lifted, so you can workout outside: run, do pull ups on a tree branch, ride a bike, lift a heavy stone, do an outdoor yoga class, etc. Hell, you only need maybe a 6' x 6' area for a perfectly effective body weight routine, even in…

For many of us, working out is a core part of our identity. It's taken literal years to get to the levels we're at, and to see that progress roll backwards is debilitating, in a mental sense.

Since you don't work out, I assume you like food. Imagine if you had to spend months eating nothing but Soylent because of $reasons, then when you complain you get chirping like "I don't get it, it's the same nutritional value, you don't need any real food".

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#99

Post by ativzzz »

dragosmocrii wrote: post #62
matz1 wrote: post #42

Bad policies deserve to be violated. > Please consider reporting the details to the appropriate authorities No, on the contrary I'm encouraging people to go out and resume their normal activities.

This. The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. I also played a couple games of volleyball and tennis, and I'm so clumsy I'm embarrassed I lost control of my body. Meanwhile, thr local gyms havr silly rules to restrict people's access...

You can maintain a very healthy body using only body weight exercises, with practically no weights at all from the comfort of your home. With youtube and the like, you have access to near infinite workouts as well. Not having access to a gym is not a sufficient reason to be out of shape.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#100

Post by lebedsalavat »

reaperducer wrote: post #78
dragosmocrii wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. I also played a couple games of volleyball and tennis, and I'm so clumsy I'm embarrassed I lost control of my body. Meanwhile, thr local gyms havr silly rules to restrict people's access...

The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. It's not about you. It's about everyone else. How can someone be so selfish and self-absorbed that they think their "muscle mass" is more important than the health of hundreds or thousands of other people? I know this question may violate some HN policy, but I can…

totally agree. Stop living life because there's a chance of dying.
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