I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#311

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 8:12 AM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #248

mhafez17 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our company was AppAdvice - we did iOS app recommendation. We were most popular for our detailed curated lists, and looping gameplay videos here: https://appadvice.com/game/collections Basically the idea was we helped you figure out which apps / games you would love and then link you directly to the official App Store to download it

As I understand it, AppAdvice has curated content. Nothing about curated content requires special permissions of a phone (location, bluetooth, etc). Therefore, it seems like a good match for the web. Indeed, there is no dearth of app recommendation websites today -- so many that who knows whom to trust, but that is besides the point. I guess I'm asking: why did you choose to make this an app in the first place? Was t…

Apps had - and probably still have - much higher discoverability and repeat usage than websites / webapps, in practice. Sure, you can make your website so it installs onto the home screen and behaves just like an app, but without the app store, nobody will bother to look for it / find it. The app store's recommendations and features are super powerful, and any app or game that gets featured will be instantly successful.

I attended an Apple TV event in Berlin once, it was actually really good and well polished, but at the same time it felt like a marketing event aimed at developers to please make things for the Apple TV platform. They shared an e-mail address as well, going "If you've made something cool, send us an email and we may feature it".

Still a bit salty that I didn't pursue it further, but honestly, I need a team to work on an app. I'm comfortable with the technical side of things, but I suck at ideas, product management and design, and design is incredibly important.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#312

Post by ransom1538 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

carlsborg wrote: post #286

ransom1538 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I worked at a game company 2011: kicked out of facebook (quizzes restrictions were added to the toss) 2) I worked at a mobile ads company 2013: kicked out of apple store 3) I worked at a mobile hosting company for small shops 2015: salons, restaurants, etc: kicked out of apple store 4) I worked at a mobile social network company (2017): kicked out of apple store. 5) I built an app where people can promote their gi…

Why were 2, 3, 4, and 6 banned?

2 - driving traffic to apps (advertising), it was considered "manipulating the rankings"

3 - the apps for were too similar, we were kicked out for being "templated". eg two different hair salons stores had too similar functionality - but were aesthetically totally different

4 - the social network allowed people to post text, someone said something horrible on the network and reported it (with screenshot) to apple

6 - google reported the content was too similar, eg generated. every doctor had different content but the structure was too similar

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#313

Post by nuker » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 8:22 AM UTC

dessant wrote: post #14

Ansil849 wrote: post #7

> In November last year the App Review team made it clear that our apps were not welcome in the Store anymore as they actively removed our main app from the Store. They pointed to the rule (2.26) created just a couple of years ago about what kind of apps can recommend apps other than its own (by the way I still believe my apps fit the description). We of course have been aware of this rule since it came out, as we al…

You seem to not be interested in living with your right to install any app you want on your device, which is fine. But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? Do you think that general purpose computing devices, which an iPhone is, should no longer have the capability to run software without third-party auditing an…

> You seem to not be interested in living with your right to install any app you want on your device, which is fine.

Yep, i'm very happy that privacy/security audit is done already by the app store.

> But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices?

This is tricky question. Suppose they can, after opt-in. 1) Tons of crap weather and flashlight and Coupons apps gets user data breached, scams ensue. 2) Incentive to build quality apps drops, as people install clone apps your profits will evaporate. 3) Malware

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#314

Post by true_religion » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 8:57 AM UTC

xuki wrote: post #284

oltremarino wrote: post #259

I don't really understand why Apple is allowed to have the amount of power it has today: it provides the hardware, the operating system, the software store (which they make sure is the only way to get software for most users), _and_ gets to decide whether any particular piece of software is allowed on the store? Surely there needs to be some separation of powers? e.g. a third party (could be set up by the government…

Because the gov should not control what a private business could do unless it's against the laws? The debate is whether Apple is a monopoly, until we conclude that Apple should be able to run their store as they see fit. Personally I would say Apple is not a monopoly, but Apple + Google is a duopoly and maybe gov should do something about BOTH of them.

People are saying that what Apple is doing should be against the law.

When talking about ethics and regulation, it’s not enough to simply say the status quo should be preserved.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#315

Post by true_religion » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 8:59 AM UTC

mytherin wrote: post #308

cdata wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't like the web, nobody is forcing you to use it. But, your decision not to use it shouldn't come at the cost of someone else's freedom to distribute legitimate software or creative works to those users who seek it out. Speaking for myself, most of the "apps" I use on my phone and desktop on a daily basis are PWAs, and they are generally indistinguishable from the native apps I use in terms of quality.

I don't think the above poster was critiquing the quality of the web, but rather stating that the web has the same problem of generally being consolidated into the hands of a few big players (Google/Facebook). If you make a website and Google decides to remove you from their search index for whatever reason, the financial effects on most companies would also be disastrous. Perhaps even comparable to being removed fro…

Google is basically providing free advertising. If they remove you, then you can just use paid advertising.

There are many verticals in which Google cannot drive traffic to anyone except the top players, so everyone not in the top 10 uses other means. Being in the top index, is a perk of being already being famous and successful.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#316

Post by Abishek_Muthian » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

richrichardsson wrote: post #301

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a retro arachnoid type game in Appstore for years which was under 'Arcade' category, when apple branded its gaming subscription service as 'Arcade', it forced me to change it to an irrelevant category(Casual). I'm confident, none of the earlier 'Arcade' type games made it to the new 'Apple Arcade' program as it required to be a shiny new unreleased game, developed according to Apple's wishes for its subscriptio…

This is the kind of thing that makes me think that yourself and others who are able to demonstrate a loss of earnings due to this decision could litigate. Generally I'm against that sort of thing, but sometimes there is only one course of action that will make someone like Apple listen.

You're correct, but if the financial capacity of a disabled solopreneur from a village in India vs Californian monolith didn't make any difference in the judicial process; I would have taken that course.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#317

Post by hellofunk » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:06 AM UTC

perryizgr8 wrote: post #265

hellofunk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This snarky response undermines the meaningful content found throughout the whole letter.

Meaningful content does not excuse the real cringey shit like quoted above.

Are you referring to this as "cringey": ?

> I am in no way delusional enough to think we are partners or that Apple needs us in any respect. Of course we are insignificant to the success of Apple. Our departure from the App Store won't make even the tiniest blip. Of course I know that and this is no way meant to try to insinuate otherwise.

It seems like a reasonable admission to make. That is, it's not incorrect, what was written there.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#318

Post by jpttsn » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:12 AM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #211

madeofpalk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they just aren't good enough. even on android, with google supposedly being the patron saint of PWA, native apps just offer a better experience.

OTOH more effort hasn't been put into PWAs (by developers and Google) precisely because these won't work properly in iOS.

Did apple remove some functionality? It always sounds like that, but when I look into it it’s more about adding new features that websites didn’t use to have?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#319

Post by jpttsn » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:14 AM UTC

greatjack613 wrote: post #212

I honestly feel the best option would be for spotify, netflix, microsoft, facebook, epic, and all other companies who have been burned by apple to pull their apps indefinitely. Sort of like a hunger strike. I am confident apple will cave first.

Collusion, wouldn’t it be?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#320

Post by caro_douglos » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

I'd be curious to see the letters written directly to jeff@amazon by small businesses (3rd party merchants) which were suspended. Would be interesting to see if they:

* went out of business * took predatory loans * were given loans directly by Amazon [1].

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200416132704/https://sell.amaz...