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I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

judiciary.house.gov

241–250 of 369 posts

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#241

I honestly feel the best option would be for spotify, netflix, microsoft, facebook, epic, and all other companies who have been burned by apple to pull their apps indefinitely. Sort of like a hunger strike. I am confident apple will cave first.

All at the same time? Yeah. One app at a time? Just a chance for their competitors to gain ground.

And I would bet anything all the companies you listed would do the same thing if they were in Apple’s position.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#242
post #237

The legislation I'd get behind is to enforce import / export of data across platforms a la. Google takeout but better where you can both export and import with a single click. That is, rather than getting into some abstract arguments on what an App store should or shouldn't do the focus should be on lowering the cost of switching mobile / wearable computing platforms down to a single click of a button. There is no is…

Isn't that issue orthogonal? I don't think the iPhone has the userbase it does because it takes more than 1 click to switch to android. Many people have expensive devices that they like along with the software they prefer.

The fact that android and iOS compete for users is irrelevant to the fact that Apple has a monopoly over access to iOS users and Google has a monopoly over access to Android users. If you want to access people on mobile, you must interact with one or both largely disjoint monopolies.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sympathies. That's a really sad story. I don't know if it's any consolation that it was at least discussed among the executives. I don't know why you originally eschewed the web. I've developed on closed platforms in the past: Facebook (when Facebook games like Farmville and Mafia Wars were crazy hot), Silverlight, OpenSocial, Twitter, and now Google Apps Script. My work is always worthless in 2-3 years, and what…

Silverlight? What did you use it for? The only public Silerlight code I ever came across was Netflix’s client for Windows Internet Explorer around 2010-2012, then everyone switched to Widevine.

Riot’s League of Legends launcher’s was done in Silverlight for a while.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#244
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your ap…

>they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement I've experienced this directly a few times. In one case, we had an app in the store for several years and a random update that fixed a crash was blocked for violating the rule around allowing out of app purchases. It took a couple weeks to appeal and get it approved. In that process, we changed nothing functional and resubmitted with a couple bits twiddled to make the…

> was blocked for violating the rule around allowing out of app purchases. It took a couple weeks to appeal and get it approve

That is impressive. We can't get our app past review because Apple is insisting we are permitting out-of-app purchases (not true, but they are insisting on in-app purchase capability).

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#246
post #237

The legislation I'd get behind is to enforce import / export of data across platforms a la. Google takeout but better where you can both export and import with a single click. That is, rather than getting into some abstract arguments on what an App store should or shouldn't do the focus should be on lowering the cost of switching mobile / wearable computing platforms down to a single click of a button. There is no is…

Isn't that issue orthogonal? I don't think the iPhone has the userbase it does because it takes more than 1 click to switch to android. Many people have expensive devices that they like along with the software they prefer. The fact that android and iOS compete for users is irrelevant to the fact that Apple has a monopoly over access to iOS users and Google has a monopoly over access to Android users. If you want to a…

The difference between Apple and Google in this instance is a matter of transparency and predatory actions.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#247

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

Hello. I read your email to Tim Cook with interest and I sympathize with the plight of your company. But I wish you would treat other platforms with more respect.

To be clear, I'm glad you enjoy Apple products and I'm not trying to talk you out of that -- as if that were possible. But I do want you to understand that my experience with them is different than yours. Apple products don't delight me. I've tried them. Every time an iOS device ends up in my hands (something that happens way too often, including earlier today) it's a frustrating experience. They feel cold, uncaring and limited. Android has moved in this direction, getting more polished but less delightful over the years, but it's still a better experience for me.

Again, I'm not saying your feelings about Apple products aren't valid. They certainly are. I'm glad you've shared them and I admire your efforts to support the iOS platform. I just wish you respected people like me who don't experience technology the same way you do. I'm glad that iOS and Android products both exist in the market. There are audiences for both -- and then some.

And as for the web, we will have to agree to disagree. Not only do I think it's not dead, I don't think it will ever be dead. That's not something I'd say about either iOS or Android. The web can't go out of business or get bought. Anything it's missing can be added. The first web browser didn't support images! On the other side, it wasn't too long ago that people thought Blackberry was here to stay.

Clearly there are many features iOS and Android offer that are difficult to match with the web. For now. Clearly the development tools are more convenient than those available for the web. But there is one feature of the web that other platforms will never be able to match: it belongs to all of us. No one has to take a 30% cut of your revenue. No one gets to decide what you can and cannot make available. In your letter to Tim Cook you make it clear that you made use of that advantage yourself, even if you don't seem grateful. Freedom always comes at a price and it's up to you to decide whether it's a price worth paying. If it's not then develop for the platform you prefer. But please remember that there are people like me who think differently.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask what your app was/did?

Our company was AppAdvice - we did iOS app recommendation. We were most popular for our detailed curated lists, and looping gameplay videos here: https://appadvice.com/game/collections Basically the idea was we helped you figure out which apps / games you would love and then link you directly to the official App Store to download it

As I understand it, AppAdvice has curated content. Nothing about curated content requires special permissions of a phone (location, bluetooth, etc). Therefore, it seems like a good match for the web. Indeed, there is no dearth of app recommendation websites today -- so many that who knows whom to trust, but that is besides the point.

I guess I'm asking: why did you choose to make this an app in the first place? Was that the only way to get commissions from apple?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#249

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> If anything, the lesson to be learned here is that if your business depends exclusively on another company for its survival then it’s not your business. Cool, but some of the world's largest companies evidently care enough about the platform to develop for it anyways–or feel the need to do so. When you have a party that controls access to such a large market, then telling people who develop for that platform that i…

The companies running it have their own stake in it as well - especially Apple since curation is part of their business model. There is no entitlement to a business model nor market - as tempting as a given juicy market may be.

The alternative to ownership is an absurdity like gmail can't block spam because "antitrust".

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#250
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also see government “movements” against them Post Office, voting, the right to have encrypted messages, net neutrality, citizens being able to film police misconduct, etc. So am I suppose to trust the government?

The government is not some imaginary person in the sky: it is me and you. You can influence it - but you cannot influence Apple. Of course, being involved in government / politic is hard and takes time. You cannot change things by posting on internet forums. I'm trying to be involved in politic on local, state and federal level. And here are some hints if you are in interested: - Call a member of congress. Try to get…

You certainly can influnce a company - it is called being or not being a customer. There is no such opt out option for government as much as sovereign citizens may believe otherwise.
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