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Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

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Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#21

Post by tptacek »

BoorishBears wrote: post #16
tptacek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not in fact have to pay attention to how well the server performs. You can just take the final price, divide by 10, multiply by 2, and round whichever direction you want. You should look at tipping as a cost sharing measure, not an incentive system.

It just occurred to me maybe the reason some people find tipping so stressful, is that they think they're supposed to be grading someone with it. Because in the US it's not like taxes are included either, and and the "default" tipping percentage is much easier to calculate than tax percentages. I've lived in countries that tip and don't tip, it's honestly not a huge deal. The fact the menu says a service charge is in…

I think people in the US (and perhaps visitors to the US) would be surprised how much more expensive high-end restaurants would need to be to account for tipping --- of course, what seems to be happening instead of tip abolition is just a mandatory standardized tip. Which is fine! It's the same thing either way.

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#22

Post by fireattack »

petre wrote: post #13
smnrchrds wrote: post #2

No, they did not. It is more accurate to say two restaurants in Toronto just mandated 18% tipping: > Tips will still be split between front and back but Ten will now be "adding a flat untaxed 18 per cent service charge onto each bill no matter the size of the group," The more sensible thing would have been to increase menu prices by 18%. But they are not being sensible. They just increased their prices while pretendi…

18% price increase during a pandemic? Wow. They have it in Hungary too, but it's 8% as far as I can remember, not 18%. But we didn't mind as in Budapest the service and the food was almost always excellent, even in a bar that served mainly cocktails but had some easy dishes so that the customer doesn't leave the place if they're hungry. I don't like service tax. If you don't like the service you have no other option…

It's not 18% price increase though. People normally already pay tips just not a fixed 18%.

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#23

Post by Jedd »

tptacek wrote: post #11
vecinu wrote: post #4

I'm so happy to hear this. I cannot stand tipping and genuinely get anxiety when I'm out with friends and the wife and she sometimes pays without knowing what the right "tip amount" is. It happens to me too, where I have to pay attention to what the waiter/waitress is doing that is exceptional or bad so I can adjust my tip accordingly. It's bad for the customer and the employee, the employer is the only one winning b…

You do not in fact have to pay attention to how well the server performs. You can just take the final price, divide by 10, multiply by 2, and round whichever direction you want. You should look at tipping as a cost sharing measure, not an incentive system.

> You can just take the final price, divide by 10, multiply by 2, and round whichever direction you want.

a) this sounds horrendous, and

b) so there's zero pretence that tipping is somehow related to quality of experience?

(I ask as a fairly well-travelled Australian, but who rarely sojourned into North America.)

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#24

Post by untog »

wenc wrote: post #10

I hate the idea of tipping. I tip generously. Both of these statements are simultaneously true. The vast majority of the countries in the world (that I've visited) do not believe in percentage based tipping as we do in North America [1]. A tip either involves rounding up to the nearest unit of currency, or takes the form of a small service fee added to the bill. In North America, we've arrived at a situation where wa…

> I hate the idea of tipping. I tip generously. Both of these statements are simultaneously true.

I strongly agree with this. Particularly in the US, where tipped workers are allowed to be paid less than minimum wage on the assumption they will be tipped. So yeah, I’ll tip. But what a damn stupid system.

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#25

Post by dwohnitmok »

tptacek wrote: post #19
dwohnitmok wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. Are we now at 20-23% (exclusive of taxes, as I think they're usually calculated, so the variance here is entirely how much meals tax you have on your meal) tip rates as the new normal?

15-20% has been the norm for my whole adult life, and the upper range (1) doesn't often materially change the price of a meal and (2) simplifies the math. Use whatever system you want, though; the point is: you are not actually on the hook to evaluate the server's performance. Think of it as tipping the institution of table service.

Oh interesting! My impression was that it was 10-15% about two decades ago and has now risen to 15-20% with most people I know tending closer to the 20% edge. Maybe it's simply that my social circles have become more generous tippers.

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#26

Post by tptacek »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #17
sudeepj wrote: post #8

As someone from India, I never understood the the tipping culture when I went abroad. It is not that tips are non-existent in India. It is not mandatory in India. However in UK, any tip I was surprised even getting a simple haircut had to be tipped in UK. I do not mind if the appropriate tip amount is factored in the price itself. The guilty-feeling and ambiguity whether I am being miserly or not made me avoid such p…

I’m British. I’m sorry you feel this way. It’s the thing I hate the most about visiting the US. I’m going say this once and really big for you: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TIP IN THE UK. You can if you want but, having worked in the service sector, it is not expected, service staff won’t think worse of you and please don’t feel guilty. Unlike the US we have a vaguely liveable minimum wage that is nearly £10 per hour now and t…

£10/hr sounds significantly lower than what a US server would make in a $$ restaurant (based on industry norms for diner/day/server), let alone a $$$ or a $$$$. If they're relying on that little cash, I'm definitely tipping next time I'm in the UK.

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#28

Post by dwohnitmok »

Jedd wrote: post #23
tptacek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not in fact have to pay attention to how well the server performs. You can just take the final price, divide by 10, multiply by 2, and round whichever direction you want. You should look at tipping as a cost sharing measure, not an incentive system.

> You can just take the final price, divide by 10, multiply by 2, and round whichever direction you want. a) this sounds horrendous, and b) so there's zero pretence that tipping is somehow related to quality of experience? (I ask as a fairly well-travelled Australian, but who rarely sojourned into North America.)

There's still some correlation to quality. Personally, and I think my friends all do this as well, I have a default rate in mind that I then adjust up or down depending on service. Usually criteria for adjusting up is whether the server has a noteworthy level of service or whether I'm being an unusually needy customer. Adjusting down usually requires something fairly egregious.

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#29

Post by skj »

Jedd wrote: post #23
tptacek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not in fact have to pay attention to how well the server performs. You can just take the final price, divide by 10, multiply by 2, and round whichever direction you want. You should look at tipping as a cost sharing measure, not an incentive system.

> You can just take the final price, divide by 10, multiply by 2, and round whichever direction you want. a) this sounds horrendous, and b) so there's zero pretence that tipping is somehow related to quality of experience? (I ask as a fairly well-travelled Australian, but who rarely sojourned into North America.)

That's correct.

Re: Two more restaurants in Toronto just got rid of tipping

#30

Post by Accacin »

sudeepj wrote: post #8

As someone from India, I never understood the the tipping culture when I went abroad. It is not that tips are non-existent in India. It is not mandatory in India. However in UK, any tip I was surprised even getting a simple haircut had to be tipped in UK. I do not mind if the appropriate tip amount is factored in the price itself. The guilty-feeling and ambiguity whether I am being miserly or not made me avoid such p…

Where in the UK is this? I don't think I've ever tipped, although some restaurants do add an optional service charge (if you pay by card, it'll ask when you're paying).

I've never once even considered tipping for a haircut, and I've also never heard of Indian's having a 'poor tipper' reputation :)

I sound grumpy, but I do tip when I feel it's required. Once I went to a restaurant with family, and realised that they had no vegan food (my dad had thought a green 'V' meant vegan), and the chef and waitress went way above in preparing me some off-menu food for me, even though it was quite late in the evening. For me, that was an example of where tipping was required and I've been back many times since.

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