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I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

judiciary.house.gov

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Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#171

Post by ponker »

zepto wrote: post #122
Hamuko wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually think it’s about keeping iDevices safe. How are Hey or xCloud about keeping iDevices safe?

The mechanisms used by Hey and xCloud would clearly be used by less trustworthy companies for nefarious purposes. Hey was able to alter their app trivially to comply with the guidelines, so it actually represents nothing at all here. xCloud can’t be altered to comply, but nevertheless if app steaming were allowed in general, all of App review could be bypassed by bad actors.

If the app review process is supposed to ban objectionable content then why is Netflix allowed? What stops Netflix from putting bestiality porn on their service (and thus onto iDevices) any more than Microsoft putting objectionable games on xCloud? Simply, because Apple knows that iPhones are commercially unviable without Netflix.

Don’t accept the bullshit Apple offers for the App Store. It has always been about the benjamins, and to over a trillion dollars of success.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#172

Post by seanalltogether »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #80
mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your ap…

I think Apple knows that their inconsistency helps suppress criticism of their developer program. Look at any HN thread about apps being removed from the store over the years and its usually filled with users saying how the developer should have followed the rules and they have only themselves to blame for being removed. Apple can promote rules that "protect" users and then apply them in any way they want.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#173

Post by NorwegianDude »

halfFact wrote: post #163

Don't all users understand this before giving Apple money? No sympathy here. Make people use web apps instead of feeding the beast.

Good luck with web apps on iOS. Safari is a shitshow with more serious bugs than anything else I know of. You can report bugs, and maybe someone working on WebKit will look at it in 5 years, and maybe it will be fixed in 10 years. And then probably appear again in the next iOS version.

Either Apple is incompetent, or they're making/keeping it bad on purpose.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#174

Post by amelius »

mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

Do you still use Apple products and/or write software for them?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#175

Post by zepto »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #150
zepto wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanisms used by Hey and xCloud would clearly be used by less trustworthy companies for nefarious purposes. Hey was able to alter their app trivially to comply with the guidelines, so it actually represents nothing at all here. xCloud can’t be altered to comply, but nevertheless if app steaming were allowed in general, all of App review could be bypassed by bad actors.

> The mechanisms used by Hey and xCloud would clearly be used by less trustworthy companies for nefarious purposes. Sorry but no. What mechanism was “Hey” using that could possibly be abused by a malicious app or malicious app author? If “Hey” advertised themselves as B2B without any self-service option then Apple, by their own words, would have let the app on the store. Being B2C or having self-service (even if the…

They aren’t undocumented carve outs. Anyone can produce a reader app.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#176

Post by halfFact »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #173
halfFact wrote: post #163

Don't all users understand this before giving Apple money? No sympathy here. Make people use web apps instead of feeding the beast.

Good luck with web apps on iOS. Safari is a shitshow with more serious bugs than anything else I know of. You can report bugs, and maybe someone working on WebKit will look at it in 5 years, and maybe it will be fixed in 10 years. And then probably appear again in the next iOS version. Either Apple is incompetent, or they're making/keeping it bad on purpose.

Can't you install chrome?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#178

Post by CamperBob2 »

egocentric wrote: post #152

I fully agree with the author, and "App Review is getting too powerful" was an extremely prescient thing to say back then - let alone today. I've had my own share of similar experiences with Apple in the past, one of which was here on HN recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23585682 Apple currently has an unreasonable amount of control not only on what apps can be available on their devices, but also on how…

On top of everything, Apple is also systematically erasing all App Review rejection communications [1]

If someone were to sue them for any reason related to rejection of an app submission, they could probably obtain an injunction to bring that bullshit to a screeching halt. Just saying.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#179

Post by pier25 »

mhafez17 wrote: post #149
kanox wrote: post #103

Am I the only one that is creeped out that this email is public?

As the author I was shocked to see it out there, and seeing my emotions out there like that made me feel something, I'm not sure what. But ultimately I am happy that this conversation is finally happening. I have a good feeling things are going to change for the better soon.

> I have a good feeling things are going to change for the better soon.

I hope you're right.

What do you think will happen? Apple will be forced to allow other app stores on iOS?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#180

Post by alerighi »

cblconfederate wrote: post #100

One thing missing from this discussion is: where is academia? The WWW was created inside academia, and it's because of that that it's still open and competitive. The internet itself was created in the military. Where is the equivalent for mobile apps? It's a problematic category that is wholly dominated by 2 actors, one of which isn't even interested in phones. We need a common set of standards for mobile development…

Why not use the web as the standard? I mean progressive web apps can do nearly everything that 95% of the apps do, they can present notifications, have a local persistent storage, there are even proposal to let them access bluetooth, USB and other hardware.

But of course now Apple is trying to oppose PWA by imposing stupid limitations.

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