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I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

judiciary.house.gov

151–160 of 369 posts

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#151

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> If anything, the lesson to be learned here is that if your business depends exclusively on another company for its survival then it’s not your business.

> To the authors point - yes, Apple can change it’s policies whenever it likes, and can use those policies to kill other companies it views as competing with it’s own interests.

And in a world without antitrust regulation, a monopoly or cartel can use its market power to make massive profits and squash any and all competitors. Your "lesson" is one that takes the status quo as a given (in this case, the anti-competitive power of platforms), even when that status quo should be changed.

It's also far too extreme to be reasonable, since practically every small to medium business that depends on non-commodity inputs fails the test (for instance, pretty much every consumer software company, ever). I think the real lesson is that no business is every truly independent of others, and the platforms have discovered new classes of anti-competitive control that need to be legislated against.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#152
I fully agree with the author, and "App Review is getting too powerful" was an extremely prescient thing to say back then - let alone today.

I've had my own share of similar experiences with Apple in the past, one of which was here on HN recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23585682

Apple currently has an unreasonable amount of control not only on what apps can be available on their devices, but also on how they look, work, and generate revenue. They allow 3rd-party innovation to occur only down specific paths that they deem beneficial.

On top of everything, Apple is also systematically erasing all App Review rejection communications [1] and keeping most of this abuse in the dark, thus buying themselves more time to stay in this dominant position.

Something definitely needs to change here, hopefully sooner than later.

[1] https://www.change.org/p/apple-let-us-browse-all-our-past-re...

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In hindsight this was obviously a mistake. We were young and genuinely loved the App Store. We bought the kool-aid (and still drinking it to be honest) that this a new better way to consume content. So we wanted to be as native as possible and take full advantage from the power of being native. We never thought Apple would someday object to us helping promote their platform.

What was the profit angle your team was planning on?

Their email has this: they got a cut of order volume.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#154

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

Unfortunate to see you “betting against” the web so vehemently. What a peculiar stance.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#156
post #103

Am I the only one that is creeped out that this email is public?

Not really. In an open society, courts and government bodies will sometimes have to make private things public if there's a compelling public-interest reason for doing so. That's needed for public oversight, and all that can be asked is that reasonable actions are taken to minimize any private harm.

In this case, the email was redacted to hide the identity of its author, so I don't there's any real problem with making it public.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#157
post #148
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it’s possible to enter a credit card number into a steaming video of ‘friends’? A steaming app (game or not) can pop up a fraudulent credit card payment interface at any time.

I don't see the point you are making. If video streaming is so bad, Netflix should not be on the App Store for "iDevice security". If video game streaming is so bad, Twitch should not be on the App Store for "iDevice security".

> If video game streaming is so bad

It's not just streaming, it's interactive streaming where it could well happen that PayToWin / LootBox / etc games can appear.

Now, of course, they already exist on the App Store (and I honestly wish Apple would ban them outright) but there, at least, Apple has some kind of leverage - with xCloud, they have none.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#158

I fully agree with the author, and "App Review is getting too powerful" was an extremely prescient thing to say back then - let alone today. I've had my own share of similar experiences with Apple in the past, one of which was here on HN recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23585682 Apple currently has an unreasonable amount of control not only on what apps can be available on their devices, but also on how…

Signed the petition! Thanks for helping make change.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sympathies. That's a really sad story. I don't know if it's any consolation that it was at least discussed among the executives. I don't know why you originally eschewed the web. I've developed on closed platforms in the past: Facebook (when Facebook games like Farmville and Mafia Wars were crazy hot), Silverlight, OpenSocial, Twitter, and now Google Apps Script. My work is always worthless in 2-3 years, and what…

Silverlight? What did you use it for? The only public Silerlight code I ever came across was Netflix’s client for Windows Internet Explorer around 2010-2012, then everyone switched to Widevine.

I was using it to make GUI-centric web apps. Back then, web applications were a nightmare, and the idea of being able to have .NET for layout instead of the mess that html/css layout was at that time, was compelling.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#160

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your ap…

Imagine being led to believe you are breaking one rule, and you spent hours, days, weeks or even months as was suggested just to try to get your app back on the app store and continue your revenue stream, one which you may depend on for living, when they actually never intend to put your app back on the app store in the first place.

They could be playing with people's livelihood in cases such as this.

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