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I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

judiciary.house.gov

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Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#61

Post by s_dev »

MattGaiser wrote: post #30

How did we get from the attitude that web apps will be everything and native is backward to spending a lot of time concerned with App/Play Store monopolies? I guess my question is, why do native apps suddenly matter so much?

>I guess my question is, why do native apps suddenly matter so much?

They've always mattered -- native vs web vs hybrid is a war going on much longer than iOS or Android OS.

Native apps matter because they have much better access to Apple hardware functionality on the phones like Apple Pay, GPS, Push Notifications, Persitent Storage, Accelerometer, Camera et cetera.

A good example is video games -- while WebGL is a thing the simple reality is AAA games need to run natively.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#62

Post by kbenson »

munificent wrote: post #49
headmelted wrote: post #19

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> the lesson to be learned here is that if your business depends exclusively on another company for its survival then it’s not your business. This point is made frequently, and it's generally true. But, at the same time, every business is built on top of some kind of opportunity and there is no guarantee in life that opportunities are perpetual. The mine runs out of ore. People stop buying records. The fish stop biti…

Generally, the solution presented is to get a contract ensuring your access. That's usually because people are building on some open API for free which then changes or stops working altogether.

The App Store isn't a contract, but it is (or should be) quite a bit better than building your app on top of some open API that you have no assurances on, as the rules are published.

The problem is that there's no real introspection as to how the rules are applied, and not way to really appeal a decision and expect to influence the result, so the closest thing to a contract in this case is completely one sided.

Part of me wonders if the fact they charge for developer accounts means they might be liable in some way (although I'm sure this approach has been explored in the past), but Apple has deep enough pockets they could probably just refund every Developer the $99 and not bat an eye. If it affected the revenues they collected as their cut though... going after that money could really make a big dent if it was a class action (again, not sure this is even feasible under the law).

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#63

Post by anomaloustho »

Ansil849 wrote: post #7

> In November last year the App Review team made it clear that our apps were not welcome in the Store anymore as they actively removed our main app from the Store. They pointed to the rule (2.26) created just a couple of years ago about what kind of apps can recommend apps other than its own (by the way I still believe my apps fit the description). We of course have been aware of this rule since it came out, as we al…

The original author of the email posted in this thread shortly after this comment that might add some color here.

“I subsequently spoke to Phillip Shoemaker, who confirmed that Apple executives ordered the elimination of apps that drove downloads to the App Store. He said "Your app drove download volume. Apple doesn’t want any outside sources to drive ratings. So yeah, we got rid of all app recommendation apps." He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something Apple set out to do, and even as Senior Director of App Store (person directly in charge of App Review), he could not stop it.”

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24190694

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#65

Post by pjc50 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #30

How did we get from the attitude that web apps will be everything and native is backward to spending a lot of time concerned with App/Play Store monopolies? I guess my question is, why do native apps suddenly matter so much?

Native apps make money. The web itself makes surprisingly little, unless you get revenue from Google.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#66

Post by kbenson »

htk wrote: post #26
headmelted wrote: post #19

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motivation behind this letter. Honestly, I interpreted it differently, I saw someone passionate about something, respectfully addressing someone who’s extremely hard to get the attention, and succeeding at it! The problem being discussed i…

Also, I assume some of it is playing to your audience. That doesn't necessarily mean making stuff up, but sometimes it means emphasizing and de-emphasizing different things (play up love of Apple and dislike of Android usability, etc). It doesn't have to even be fake at all, I imagine writing this letter was emotional, and how you feel in that state and how you feel at your most rational may be quite far apart.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#67

Post by justapassenger »

headmelted wrote: post #19

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> To the authors point - yes, Apple can change it’s policies whenever it likes, and can use those policies to kill other companies it views as competing with it’s own interests.

It's only a question of when, not if, app stores will get regulated. And given very cocky attitude from Apple, regulations will be likely pretty strong.

Like with all new technology, laws take some time to catch up with specific of it, but the spirt of regulation is very well known. Giving too much power and tight grip over the competition, in increasingly important part of the economy is not something government will allow for single entity to posses. Apple, and few other tech companies, are on a highway to be new Standard Oil.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#68

Post by mhafez17 »

domador wrote: post #36
mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

Bummer! So, what platform(s) are you developing for nowadays?

No longer in the app recommendation game (too bad that was my passion. The same team who built AppAdvice has now created a B2B company helping businesses annoyomize personal documents: https://redacted.ai

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#69

Post by Waterfall »

headmelted wrote: post #19

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

A lot of people don't understand your point about your business not being yours. You stated that they solely depended on apple, and that is the point. That is why many are multiplatform. The function of the apps are also different, you want enough functionality to be different but not to rule breaking, or a sandbox environment. Lots of games are multiplatform now, software may not be but they usually don't depend on one piece of software. They did not keep a web page, even though I'm almost sure they made it in HTML.

That is the point, they relied on one thing only too much. It seems a job of passion too.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#70

Post by gundmc »

htk wrote: post #26
headmelted wrote: post #19

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motivation behind this letter. Honestly, I interpreted it differently, I saw someone passionate about something, respectfully addressing someone who’s extremely hard to get the attention, and succeeding at it! The problem being discussed i…

It reminded me of Jeff Bezos's infamous question mark emails.
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