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How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

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Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#131

Post by JoeAltmaier »

La1n wrote: post #120
philg_jr wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. There are better fish (in terms of sustainability) that can be famred, and proper regulations (which the US has, compared to other countries) exist to help. In general, I don't believe the US is the problem with overfishing or polution problems caused by fish farming, compared to other countries who don't have or want the abili…

>Salmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. That counts for all animals, no?

Its about using protein that has other uses. E.g. free-range chickens eat bugs; I don't want to eat bugs, but I'll gladly eat chickens.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#132

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrr »

holografix wrote: post #45

We need less people in the world. Our only hope to avoid mass human suffering is that as more women get educated and independent they reduce the number of children they’ll conceive to 1 or 2.

This is not correct. The world can currently sustain all 8 billion people and then some. It simply chooses not to. Population control is a very weird argument and I'd like to not hear it anymore, as someone who used to believe it.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#133

Post by ephemeralism »

bamboozled wrote: post #110

Is the world just going to have to let China own itself to learn the hard way? Like, it just seems like a bad news generator and we constantly need to dance around the CCP trying to guide them appropriately with sanctions, and threats and incentives. I understand depleting the oceans would be catastrophic, but how is this regime ever going to learn? Honest question?

Ah yes, the age old question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#134

Post by [deleted] »

Alupis wrote: post #101
evancox100 wrote: post #17

Anyone else catch this? First: “The Chinese government says its distant-water fishing fleet, or those vessels that travel far from China’s coast, numbers roughly 2,600, but other research, such as this study by the Overseas Development Institute (ODI), puts this number closer to 17,000”. Several paragraphs later: “More recently, the Chinese government has stopped calling for an expansion of its distant-water fishing…

Any numbers coming out of the CCP need to be multiplied or divided by 10 to get closer to reality.

[deleted]

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#135

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrr »

euix wrote: post #38

Don't forget behind China, you got India, SEA, the rest of Africa which will experience a population boom this century. How we going to feed all these people when their living standards go up? We need to get to mars fast.

You are not even making an effort to feed them at their current population, so the end of your argument kind of answers itself.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#136

Post by magnio »

ephemeralism wrote: post #54
evancox100 wrote: post #17

Anyone else catch this? First: “The Chinese government says its distant-water fishing fleet, or those vessels that travel far from China’s coast, numbers roughly 2,600, but other research, such as this study by the Overseas Development Institute (ODI), puts this number closer to 17,000”. Several paragraphs later: “More recently, the Chinese government has stopped calling for an expansion of its distant-water fishing…

There's no source for either of those claims though. Furthermore, it says restrict to under 3000, while you have changed it to reduce.

It's true. Here is the 13th 5-year plan by the Ministry of Agriculture. It does say "总数稳定在3000", which means to stabilize the number of vessels.

http://jiuban.moa.gov.cn/zwllm/ghjh/201712/t20171221_5985078...

Also for more details about the ODI estimate: https://www.cffacape.org/publications-blog/how-large-is-the-...

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#137

Post by [deleted] »

metalliqaz wrote: post #125
bamboozled wrote: post #110

Is the world just going to have to let China own itself to learn the hard way? Like, it just seems like a bad news generator and we constantly need to dance around the CCP trying to guide them appropriately with sanctions, and threats and incentives. I understand depleting the oceans would be catastrophic, but how is this regime ever going to learn? Honest question?

This question has been answered many times in the past. Through most of human history, it would have involved killing 80% of their young men and taking the women as slaves. I don't know where it will lead in the age of nuclear weapons.

[deleted]

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#138

Post by La1n »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #131
La1n wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Salmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. That counts for all animals, no?

Its about using protein that has other uses. E.g. free-range chickens eat bugs; I don't want to eat bugs, but I'll gladly eat chickens.

Yes, but my point stands. Any animal "wastes" protein.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#139

Post by seanmcdirmid »

La1n wrote: post #120
philg_jr wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. There are better fish (in terms of sustainability) that can be famred, and proper regulations (which the US has, compared to other countries) exist to help. In general, I don't believe the US is the problem with overfishing or polution problems caused by fish farming, compared to other countries who don't have or want the abili…

>Salmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. That counts for all animals, no?

Ya. I’m not sure why you are being downvoted but with animals you always get out less than you put in. Plants are the same way, but can grab other inputs (solar, minerals from the ground).

Animal husbandry is a great way of converting inputs unfit for human consumption (animal feed) into something that is (meat) but it’s never very efficient.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#140

Post by seanmcdirmid »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #131
La1n wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Salmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. That counts for all animals, no?

Its about using protein that has other uses. E.g. free-range chickens eat bugs; I don't want to eat bugs, but I'll gladly eat chickens.

What do farmed salmon eat, and is that better used for something else?
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