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Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

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41–50 of 115 posts

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#41

Dear parents: never let your kids lie, at any age. It might be cute when they're 3 or 4 or 5, but if you don't gently tell them that "we don't tell lies, we always tell the truth" it will become a habit they will carry into adulthood.

Indeed. Child development researchers recommend that when your kid asks you a sensitive question, you should always reply "I cannot confirm or deny" if you want them to pursue in a career in Washington, DC or "I plead the fifth" if you expect them to go to law school.

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#42
post #31

Obvious to many: After working for 13+ years at wildly successful silicon valley companies and seeing who climbs the latter, it is those who are good at lying. There is a spectrum ranging from blatant lying to manipulative, selective withholding of information.

Would you characterize the ladder climbees as Machiavellian?

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#43
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just business talk, not lies.

Yea, "I'm fine" when you're really not, isn't a lie because there's no intent to deceive. No one actually expects you to tell you how you truly are when they ask "How are you?". So if anything, the initial question is more the lie because it implies concern for the person being asked when it's really just a salutation.

If you're charismatic enough you can get away with saying how you really feel and you'll find that you make friends more quickly. I remember there was this time in the midst of a relationship ending and my father dying and after years of dealing with a painful medical condition I responded with "it's just another shitty day" with a rueful smile. Instant friends with the cafe worker. When things finally started to turn around for me and I said "things are great!" he was really happy for me.

It's a matter of reading the person and situation. Sometimes if the person asking the question is in a context where I can tell they don't want an honest answer I just say "oh, how are you?" I'd rather evade the question than to say "I'm fine" when things are shitty.

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#44
post #9

As an Aspie, (almost) every neurotypical person seems to be a pathological liar, not able to make a small talk without committing a few lies. Examples: "I am fine, thanks", "You look great!", "It is a wonderful idea!", "You are our best client", "For our company privacy is a priority", etc, etc.

As a something I struggle to exist in a world of people doing that.

It seems that socializing is a very subtle anthropological game, where the only goal is to feel a bit close to human beings without feeling bad, threatened and able to make some noises like the other peers. The rest is useless if not counter productive. Aspie probably want to turn spin their neuron to feel the joy of thinking.. most people absolutely don't want to think (maybe a result of natural limits... you can die thinking for too long but being a follower ensure better outcomes ?)

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#45
post #9

As an Aspie, (almost) every neurotypical person seems to be a pathological liar, not able to make a small talk without committing a few lies. Examples: "I am fine, thanks", "You look great!", "It is a wonderful idea!", "You are our best client", "For our company privacy is a priority", etc, etc.

That's just business talk, not lies.

Or common courtesy / "culture" rules. That said, people on the spectrum have trouble with phrases like "What's up" or "How are ya"; a quick answer like "Not much, you?" is in a lot of cases a lie so it doesn't come out as smoothly as cultural norms seem to expect, and a genuine answer is not something the asker expected, especially if it's about e.g. work or hobbies that the asker doesn't know much about, or if you have to assess your current mood / situation to describe how you are.

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#46

Dear parents: never let your kids lie, at any age. It might be cute when they're 3 or 4 or 5, but if you don't gently tell them that "we don't tell lies, we always tell the truth" it will become a habit they will carry into adulthood.

Lying is actually a pretty well known psychological milestone, since deception requires that you hold two concepts in your head at once. Trying to stop that completely is a fool’s errand. Do you have any evidence to back up the assertion that lying too much at 4/5 is how one becomes a pathological liar?

Just reports from other parents who regret not stopping it early on. Their children would make fantastic stories about who was to blame for their mistakes, the parents would laugh and let it go, but the behavior didn't stop and only got worse. I kept that in mind when my kids reached those ages and did the same.

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#47
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is useful obviously but won't work on everyone and makes parents deal with unnecessary guilt and shame when they are raising let's say a Donald. To the liars out there don't think there is something wrong with you. You have your purpose too - Google psychopathy or dark triad in the work place and know that Managers actually use/need you guys too, not just honest Abe. Basically we still live with a stone age leve…

Your "purpose" isn't determined by your manager's use for you.

Passing judgement on lying does damage to everyone. It has a use. Therefore will be used.

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#48
My first wife was a pathological liar. I'm bad at reading people and tend to think the best of people, so I remained naive (or willfully blind) to it for a long time. It came to a head when a sweet, mutual friend of ours asked an innocent question about what we were doing later in the day, and my (now ex-) wife gave a completely made up answer. It wasn't a white lie to get out of something, or a deflection to keep privacy, it was simply a pointless falsehood clearly produced on reflex.

She was good at keeping track of who she told what lie, so this was the first time I'd been the 3rd party observer to something I could definitively know she was lying about. I confronted her about it later privately, " is our friend, why would you lie to her for no reason?" and she gave a dismissive non-answer.

That was the first loose thread that unraveled the whole sweater. It turned out she'd been lying to me and everyone close to her, about things big and small, for many years.

It's difficult for me to understand the psychology behind it, but I think it comes down to she feels alternately safer and superior when she knows some truth that someone else doesn't know. Her parents are estranged but stayed together, constantly low-key gas lighting each other. Maybe growing up in that environment is why she reflexively lies. Or maybe it's heritable and the lying leads to that kind of relationship. Either way, I wasn't going to live the same way and peaced out.

Re: Pathological Lying: Theoretical and Empirical Support for a Diagnostic Entity

#50

Dear parents: never let your kids lie, at any age. It might be cute when they're 3 or 4 or 5, but if you don't gently tell them that "we don't tell lies, we always tell the truth" it will become a habit they will carry into adulthood.

That's right. The object of the game isn't alway "win the game", more often the object is to keep enough partners around to keep playing the game. Trust is a large component of having willing participants in your game - so don't lie!
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