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How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

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Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#71

Post by droopyEyelids »

neuronic wrote: post #55
geddy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farming is horrendous for the animals. Animals aren’t some inanimate object.

For most Asians and especially the Chinese, animals are just objects. Doesn't matter if you think about mammals skinned alive in some Chinese markets, turtles having their feet chopped off or Huskys locked into a 1-bedroom apartment for their entire life. Asians mostly do not give a single damn about animal well-being. That's a uniquely Western thing.

Do any of the Woke/critical theory people know if it's acceptable to say something like this ^ if you explicitly tie it to culture? Is it OK to say some regional cultures place more emphasis on animal cruelty than others?

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#72

Post by usrusr »

globuous wrote: post #35
usrusr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Salt water) fish farming is still hunting on an industrial scale because the farmed fish are mostly carnivorous and are fed with feed derived to a large part from hunted fish. It's mostly a tool to strip the oceans even harder (with fish farms converting undesirable catch into species people like to eat, everything becomes a target)

I don't understand why we eat carnivorous fish. It'd be like feeding on lions... I read some of piketty's book, capital and idéologie, and he sources work that show that if India and China have historically had a greater population, it's because Europeans love meat. And feeding a population on meat requires much more agricultural space than feeding on veggies and cereals alone. I had always wondered why it was, and I…

Because in the open water of the oceans, not only the herbivorous level of the food chain is on the plankton scale but also the first carnivorous level or levels. The small fish that are eaten by the larger fish that we eat are already feeding off carnivores.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#73

Post by Falling3 »

huffmsa wrote: post #48
geddy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farming is horrendous for the animals. Animals aren’t some inanimate object.

And we're not some magical creature free from biological needs. Eating other animals is what got us here. Until we can print actual, chemically identical meat on a conveyor belt, our reliance on animals will continue.

Humans don't require animal products to live (or thrive). And your "what got us here" comment is a Naturalistic Fallacy.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#74

Post by axaxs »

Falling3 wrote: post #68
axaxs wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this doesn't seem like it could be true. My Dad always raised cattle as a pastime, just a handful, one for meat and sold the rest. Never subsidized, and he usually broke just about even. A big mac has a fifth pound of beef. $75 a pound for ground beef? He'd buy hundreds. So would I, and everyone else. Why bother cutting out steaks, just grind the whole thing down. So I'm c…

Agricultural subsidies that affect beef, either directly or indirectly, have been in place in the US for almost a century. So either your father is quite old, did not live in the US, or that meat was subsidized.

OK, but I'm asking for -how-, truly. My father is getting up there, but still raises cattle to this day. He buys them as calves, and sells them the next year. They mainly eat grass and hay, but admittedly there is -some- corn feed in the winter, which I understand as one source of subsidy, but I can't see it amounting to much in the grand scheme just based on the amount. When selling them, after accounting for initial cost, medicine, and extras, he breaks even. And that's at today's 'cheap' beef prices.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#75

Post by Falling3 »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #71
neuronic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most Asians and especially the Chinese, animals are just objects. Doesn't matter if you think about mammals skinned alive in some Chinese markets, turtles having their feet chopped off or Huskys locked into a 1-bedroom apartment for their entire life. Asians mostly do not give a single damn about animal well-being. That's a uniquely Western thing.

Do any of the Woke/critical theory people know if it's acceptable to say something like this ^ if you explicitly tie it to culture? Is it OK to say some regional cultures place more emphasis on animal cruelty than others?

It has nothing to do with being "woke". It's laughably innacurate.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#76

Post by pjc50 »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #71
neuronic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most Asians and especially the Chinese, animals are just objects. Doesn't matter if you think about mammals skinned alive in some Chinese markets, turtles having their feet chopped off or Huskys locked into a 1-bedroom apartment for their entire life. Asians mostly do not give a single damn about animal well-being. That's a uniquely Western thing.

Do any of the Woke/critical theory people know if it's acceptable to say something like this ^ if you explicitly tie it to culture? Is it OK to say some regional cultures place more emphasis on animal cruelty than others?

Unsourced ties to "culture" across a huge region of a billion people and dozens of distinct langauges and cultures? Looks like a smear to me.

(also, does "Asian" include India and the Jain, for example?)

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#77

Post by sct202 »

usrusr wrote: post #9
oblio wrote: post #2

We badly need some sort of industrial fish farming at a large scale. Oceanic fishing at this point is basically like hunting gathering at an industrial scale: we just catch whatever we can and who cares if it grows back, not our problem, "nature" will take care of it. The same way we seed, till, etc., we should be doing the same thing with oceans and "hunting" aka fishing should only be allowed as a hobby. In a somew…

(Salt water) fish farming is still hunting on an industrial scale because the farmed fish are mostly carnivorous and are fed with feed derived to a large part from hunted fish. It's mostly a tool to strip the oceans even harder (with fish farms converting undesirable catch into species people like to eat, everything becomes a target)

We also have a lot of issues getting salt water fish to reproduce in captivity, like only a couple universities have been able to get tuna to reproduce in captivity and not at scale.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#78

Post by kwanbix »

BurningFrog wrote: post #59
holografix wrote: post #45

We need less people in the world. Our only hope to avoid mass human suffering is that as more women get educated and independent they reduce the number of children they’ll conceive to 1 or 2.

This was Chinese government policy for decades. It caused immense human suffering. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/120114/under... Personally, I think people are an asset, not a burden, and the greatest things in the world! That's right, I mean you , dear reader. Straighten that back!

Something doesn't ads up. If we are 50 couples, and we all have 2 kids, when the original parents die we are still 100 people. If 50 couples have 1 kid, wen the original parents die, you have half of the population. If they did that for some many years, how come they kept growing?

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#79

Post by tidenly »

neuronic wrote: post #55
geddy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farming is horrendous for the animals. Animals aren’t some inanimate object.

For most Asians and especially the Chinese, animals are just objects. Doesn't matter if you think about mammals skinned alive in some Chinese markets, turtles having their feet chopped off or Huskys locked into a 1-bedroom apartment for their entire life. Asians mostly do not give a single damn about animal well-being. That's a uniquely Western thing.

It's a uniquely western thing to pontificate about how enlightened we are about animal welfare while simultaneously funding the majority of the global meat industry - maybe. While it's true some Asian countries eat animals "taboo" to eat in "the west", large parts of these industries comes from countries pulled out of the brink of famines just a few generations ago and many young people/adults in the developed parts of those countries have already moved away from consumption them or cruelty certain animals viewed as "companions". Spare the preaching about us caring about other animals though. I don't see why eating, say, a horse is any more ghoulish than eating a pig.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#80

Post by dathinab »

BurningFrog wrote: post #59
holografix wrote: post #45

We need less people in the world. Our only hope to avoid mass human suffering is that as more women get educated and independent they reduce the number of children they’ll conceive to 1 or 2.

This was Chinese government policy for decades. It caused immense human suffering. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/120114/under... Personally, I think people are an asset, not a burden, and the greatest things in the world! That's right, I mean you , dear reader. Straighten that back!

It caused harn because it was stupidly implemented not because it's generally bad.

But btw. many western countries have a shrinking population since years to a degree where that's an problem.

But this also means that the countries which have to take (reasonable) actions include many contribute which often can't afford more reasonable actions :/

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