Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again, its society and its lack of compassion does it. Not "the homeless".
or maybe just prop 13
That law is the root of the problem. California will bankrupt before it goes away.
Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
301–310 of 1001 posts
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except San Francisco has nature (and even more nature close by) which makes all the difference to me. The few times I’ve been in NYC, I found the sheer amount of gray concrete and steel to be unnerving and dystopian; I’m legitimately amazed that humans can live in such an environment for so long without becoming depressed. That’s not to disparage the city or people who like it; there’s just many of us who need at lea…
Yes. It's really the combination of climate (usually) and relatively easy access to water, mountains, etc. that set San Francisco apart. IMO, anyone who lives in SF and basically never leaves the city except maybe to work is passing up the main compensation for its high housing prices and many problems. Take away its setting and it's pretty unremarkable. [ADDED: OK. Not really fair but what make SF unique is very tie…
I was there a few years ago, and saw several homes built in the same era as mine, 1908.
I live in a rural city and paid less than $150k, I saw the equivalent home in SF for $9mil.
Location matters for sure.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#303These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…
>there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. I don't think it's as simple as one group replacing another so it's a was…
Why would the city care about income taxes? Those go to the state, not the city (with the exception of NYC).
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you underestimate the density of restaurants and cuisines available. No suburb I have encountered gets close to matching this situation. Suburbs also typically require cars, something I don't own and never want to own. I don't want a backyard either as that just means another thing to maintain against entropy! All of this to say, it depends on what you value :)
Yeah I’m not sure why people don’t get that walking past the climbing gym, a hundred varied restaurants, and a wide assortment of local shops on the way home is different than driving 20 minutes to go eat or go to the gym. My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m…
> My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m disappointed.
From my searching in NYC prices, it seems like this is happening not in average prices but in the bottom of the market, and within specific neighborhoods. West Village prices aren't going to drop, but some places like say Astoria, Gowanus, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, and the like are going to have more decent places hit some record lows. I recently found a place 5 blocks from me that was 1.2K cheaper a month. Yes, it lacked some amenities and the location is worse, but that type of gap would have never existed pre-pandemic.
I know someone who explicitly moved into my neighborhood off of one of these deals, and without it they would have been in a much cheaper neighborhood. I suspect that type of movement is going to have ripple effects into outer borough pricing which could then make cheaper space.
I think we also are still not done seeing the shoe fall. These moves take time, even if already planned. The sublet market is going to shit in most cities on the seller side, which won't be reflected until those leases end. West Village prices might not fall in 2020, but they may in 2021. As time goes on with this pandemic, we also have to factor in that stagnation can also effectively be a drop.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
>there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. I don't think it's as simple as one group replacing another so it's a was…
I don't think it's going to be a wash, or prices wouldn't fall. You're right that this will decrease tax bases, so I guess the real question is "by how much?". Only time will tell what that looks like, but I think that will lead more to rebudgeting/allocating than just objective negative losses. Your specific examples are interesting though, as NYC's population explicitly rejected Amazon's HQ2 with public backlash. N…
NYC's population did not reject HQ2— a very small, vocal group killed it, angering quite a few of the rest of us. Even then, the controversy was over 1) tax breaks to Amazon being an unnecessary handout (turns out they weren't), and 2) which neighborhood to be in.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#306I've lived in San Francisco for 15 years, and I won't miss these tech workers that are leaving. They can flee to their plot of land in Minnesota and make everyone out there angry instead when rents rise and their carpetbagger ideas show up on the local ballot.
Anyone moving away isn't set on urban living and the type of community that's here. A city offers a mix of cultures, personalities, and ideas that don't form around people sitting at home taking meetings over zoom and hyping up the latest fad.
Those that stay and invest in the downturn caused by the pandemic are the ones that belong here anyway. They'll be the ones getting once in a generation housing discounts, leasing cheap retail store fronts and warehouses, and building enriched relationships.
It is a boom and bust town, and for the savviest entrepreneurs, a bust is worth more than a boom.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
With the exception of a specialized gym for climbing, none of what you've listed is anything unique to an urban environment. I've lived in various suburbs my whole life and have everything else you've listed. For much of that time, I also had a private backyard, which is something you generally don't get in urbia. You can't beat the efficiency of an urban environment though.
I think you underestimate the density of restaurants and cuisines available. No suburb I have encountered gets close to matching this situation. Suburbs also typically require cars, something I don't own and never want to own. I don't want a backyard either as that just means another thing to maintain against entropy! All of this to say, it depends on what you value :)
My gym is 2 blocks away. Within 2 blocks I have about 10 restaurants. I also don't have to walk over syringes or navigate homeless camps. I think you're stereotyping non-urban environments.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
>there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. I don't think it's as simple as one group replacing another so it's a was…
Why would the city care about income taxes? Those go to the state, not the city (with the exception of NYC).
SF has a gross receipts payroll tax, and an additional payroll tax on workers earning $320k+. Additionally higher earners spend more money on everything else that is taxed.
The bigger issue is that the media overestimates how much money SF gets from "tech". SF has a very diverse economy.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#309Whenever I see % increase as a headline you can be confident that its using percentages in order to make a misleading point. Sure enough a few paragraphs down: > It should be noted that San Francisco had an unusually low inventory relative to other large cities prior to the pandemic. Maybe there are a lot of people selling, but you can ignore this particular stat.
This comment was posted about a different article (we merged two threads). Explanation here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24179898
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#310I've lived in San Francisco for 15 years, and I won't miss these tech workers that are leaving. They can flee to their plot of land in Minnesota and make everyone out there angry instead when rents rise and their carpetbagger ideas show up on the local ballot. Anyone moving away isn't set on urban living and the type of community that's here. A city offers a mix of cultures, personalities, and ideas that don't form a…
I agree with a lot of this, but there is definitely no discount on housing right now.