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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#231

Post by Tiktaalik »

Stories I'm hearing from people in the real estate industry in Vancouver is that the recreational property market is on fire right now, as tech workers realize that there is a very good chance that WFH options will be permanent and so accordingly they can buy some property on the Sunshine Coast, Tofino, or by some lake in the Interior and go work there for large parts of the year.

The additional upside is that Vancouver real estate is so expensive that even many relatively wealthy techies are locked out of buying, so this is an opportunity for people to buy something.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#232

Post by Nursie »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #209
Nursie wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But cities have enduring appeal - proximity to people and culture and things to do is just as much a factor as proximity to work. Proximity to people may be something that loses appeal in the medium term. This is a suspicion rather than anything that can be evidenced yet, we'll see how it plays out, but I think it might start counting as a negative, or less as a positive, for a while.

Few people are going to restructure their entire life over medium terms concerns, if they can avoid it.

Firstly, I disagree, I think a lot of people structure their lives around the medium term - "I'm going to retire to X one day, but for the next few years I'm doing Y", "for now the city life is great, but I'm putting aside some cash for a house in the burbs in a few years" etc etc

But secondly, that's not really what I meant, I meant that for the next several years people's motivations and choices are likely to be impacted by the virus. This may result in a larger percentage of people moving away from cities or choosing not to move to them.

i.e. I'm not talking about an individual holding the thought in their head that "I don't want to be in a city, in the medium term, but may move back later", but a population which is less favourable to city life in the medium term, and holds a greater proportion of people who think "I don't want to live in the big smoke at all"

I may be wrong, of course, but I think we're already seeing it to a small extent.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#233

Post by [deleted] »

chrisco255 wrote: post #200
adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

Do you mind giving examples of what you have access to in NYC when so many things are shuttered right now? As for "white flight" it's more of a "white collar flight" where people with money and resources and higher income remote jobs will leave as long as living conditions suck.

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#234

Post by natechols »

crooked-v wrote: post #222
fermienrico wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, SF/Oakland/Berkeley do not resonate with me as a life-long democrat as well. Extreme-left wingers in my view stand head to head with extreme-right wingers. These people are the cancer of the society IMO.

One bit of broader context to keep in mind is that "extreme" left-wingers in the US are merely 'the left' by, say, European standards, where the US as a whole is seen as a right-leaning country.

We have actual Maoists in the bay area - they're a tiny faction and utterly irrelevant, but they're very good at getting attention and they like to poison the atmosphere for everyone. There are no Maoist governing parties in Europe that I'm aware of, and hardly any Marxists either.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#235

Post by pedrosorio »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #199
lotsofpulp wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SF decided to show compassion and start spending the massive amounts of money needed to help the homeless via education or mental health facilities, every other municipality in the country will start shipping people in. This isn’t a problem any city or state can address. It’s only solvable on a federal level, and that’s only because there is a military to enforce borders.

So you decide to not help people, because then you would need to help people?

Did you read the OPs argument? It’s not that “helping people leads to helping more people” is a problem. It’s how many people can a single city (particularly one as housing constrained as SF) afford to help.

Suppose you want to help people and decide that donating 20% of your after tax salary helping people is reasonable.

Instead, offer anyone who comes to your door in need $1000. How long will you be able to keep it up?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#236

Post by jariel »

adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

? There are plenty of cities to move to that are not SF or NYC and I bet the vast majority of those bailing SF are moving to other urban areas.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#237

Post by Nursie »

adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

> the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out.

I think it's short sighted to think that Covid won't impact on the numbers of the latter, who may re-evaluate whether they actually love big cities at all.

I also think that these categories are not fixed, I have been in both, and Covid may alter the dynamics of how many change between which groups and at what ages.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#238

Post by wandereronhn »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #128
amw-zero wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m very skeptical that 60% of all people prefer to work from home. In my experience, it’s a small but vocal minority who don’t value the social component of an office. I think work from home should totally be optional, but why do work-from-homers assume that everyone else likes to work that way? I do not.

I think the factor you're missing is the large chunk of people who just... aren't particularly fulfilled by their job. A lot of the people in that 60% are perfectly fine with it if working from home means they're less productive or achieve less of a personal connection with their coworkers - I know more than a few people who'd be happier watching Youtube alone for 8 hours than working.

I mean, I'd also prefer watching 8 hours of youtube without disruptions than having to commute for 2 hours each day and only getting to watch 6 hours at work with constant disruptions.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#239

Post by 01100011 »

adjkant wrote: post #210
chrisco255 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind giving examples of what you have access to in NYC when so many things are shuttered right now? As for "white flight" it's more of a "white collar flight" where people with money and resources and higher income remote jobs will leave as long as living conditions suck.

> Do you mind giving examples of what you have access to in NYC when so many things are shuttered right now? Right now, I've basically reallocated my budget of city activities towards local restaurants, and I've been eating a ton of great delivery. As the cases have slowed, I'm cautiously considering outdoor dining. Either way, I'm eating great food right now. I live in Brooklyn, so Prospect Park (central park of the…

With the exception of a specialized gym for climbing, none of what you've listed is anything unique to an urban environment. I've lived in various suburbs my whole life and have everything else you've listed. For much of that time, I also had a private backyard, which is something you generally don't get in urbia.

You can't beat the efficiency of an urban environment though.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#240

Post by tjr225 »

randycupertino wrote: post #214
tjr225 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I tried to call that out in my post. Even towns like Bend, Bellingham, etc(even somewhat places in Idaho and Montana by now) are by no means cheap and on top of that they don’t have a robust job market to justify the cost.

I wonder if the pandemic is going to decimate the housing markets even more in those remote mountain towns. I have two coworkers who just moved to Bozeman, MT to be closer to skiing and fishing. I would think places like Kalispell, Coeur d'Alene, Jackson Hole, Taos and Bend are all going to see a large influx of remote workers who like outdoor lifestyles.

I would suspect yes the pressure will be greater in areas like that. It is one of the reasons I prefer bigger cities on the west coast though; more houses, more jobs, and just as much nature.

I have worked 100% remotely for almost two years now and love it but now I live somewhere with a crappy job market. Yes I save money but I live in constant fear of having to take a 50% pay cut if I can’t find more remote work.

I love working remotely and I think it’s a great idea but I don’t think people realize how much of a leash it is when you choose to work in SV but live in the middle of nowhere.

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