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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#131

Post by neltnerb »

kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

I was surprised that in SF of all places the impact of COVID on AirBNB rentals wasn't even mentioned. I'd expect some people doing that have decided to just rent it like normal housing and actually increase the housing stock.

But way too early to tell, I'm still never expecting to move back there.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#132

Post by vecinu »

tjr225 wrote: post #92
fountainofage wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those activities are also restricted and limited during COVID - either explicitly via state and local ordinances or via social pressures to not spread the virus. Basically, the optimal solution right now is to not go anywhere or see anyone unless you absolutely have to. Which if all someone should be doing is sitting at home or getting groceries, they could do that for a lot less than SF prices.

Hiking/cycling/camping can be crazy socially distant and probably one of the best things you can do for your own mental and physical health right now. A ride up Tam isn’t going to be any more or less dangerous than it was before. Outside of a few extremely popular spots it is not restricted in Washington, at least to my knowledge. If it is in the Bay/CA then it is news to me. In any case, that stuff will still be the…

Hiking in the Bay Area is extremely difficult right now. You have to wear a mask EVERYWHERE outside where you are near people.

On trails with 90+F weather you have to put your mask on every 30 seconds with how many people there are, it's a mess.

My mental health is not improving when there are a million people all trying to do outdoor activities in the limited space we have nearby.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#133

Post by [deleted] »

kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#134

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

goldenManatee wrote: post #5
walamaking wrote: post #3

I wonder what impact will WFH have on getting promotions, and the likelihood of being laid off.

Probably flux at first, and after some time an equilibrium. People get used to all kinds of things - change or die, for companies and careers alike. Worrying about this will be irrelevant after some time. Too much concern on this kind of suggests to me that a significant portion of people’s pay is based on the perception of productivity derived from interfacing with many people at work, but not necessarily producing…

I don't agree with the dichotomy here. There's no "more than" about it; interfacing with people is one of the most important ways that white collar professionals produce value for a company.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#135

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

Your friends are how representative of SF people? 1. Going on a road trip right now is a very bad idea 2. Most normal people don't have the ability (I guess if you're a high performer in tech?) to move to another high income English speaking country. 3. Moving to Santa Cruz is a joke if you're worried about cost of living. 4. Same with Austin.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#136

Post by vecinu »

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

Accurate experience, I have some similar examples as well.

I am still considering if I should be like your friend #4 and go back to eastern Canada to wait out this disastrous response in the US. If only winter wasn't coming, I would have probably already left but my lease is only ending at the end of September.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#137

Post by Nursie »

tjr225 wrote: post #73
fountainofage wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But cities have enduring appeal - proximity to people and culture and things to do I think this is key right here. For the foreseeable future, those things won't be any more available in an expensive city compared to an inexpensive rural area. So why buy a 1 bedroom for $2 million or rent one for $3500 a month if I can do the exact same amount of networking and see the exact same amount of museums while paying sign…

Culture and things to do include a lot more than just networking and museums. One example for instance is the vast amount of unique natural beauty surrounding the Bay Area. Even rural places that have that are also expensive- though admittedly not nearly as much so. This is generally reflected in salary though.

> One example for instance is the vast amount of unique natural beauty surrounding the Bay Area.

But that's not what you move to most cities for. SF may be exceptional in having that stuff as well, but for most cities, if you lock down the social/cultural aspects, then the natural beauty is elsewhere.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#138

Post by dang »

kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

Re inventory numbers: this comment was originally posted to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24176859, which points to an article that (misleadingly, as this and other comments are pointing out) referenced only a 96% increase in inventory numbers. We merged that thread into this one, which was posted earlier and points to a more substantive article. (I know it's WSJ, but there are paywall workarounds in the thread.)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#139

Post by ogdusk »

Whenever an article like this comes out, I can’t help but wonder if the reporters considered talking to people with more diverse backgrounds. Since the pandemic started, my partner and I have talked about moving to lower cost of living areas, but inevitably we have to ask ourselves: “what would it _really_ be like to live in for people who look like us?” In an ideal world, decency and merit win out over appearance and race in terms of how people are treated, but unfortunately that’s not the reality for many folks in tech.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#140

Post by kilbuz »

ghaff wrote: post #94
tjr225 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture and things to do include a lot more than just networking and museums. One example for instance is the vast amount of unique natural beauty surrounding the Bay Area. Even rural places that have that are also expensive- though admittedly not nearly as much so. This is generally reflected in salary though.

If nature's your priority though, you don't live in SF or SV proper. You live in the Santa Cruz mountains, Marin, or further north along the coast or in the mountains (or in the Sierras). Those aren't cheap either in many cases of course until you really get out of Bay Area commuting range.

I don't know if this is true for many people who live here. There is a subgroup of my friends who live in the city and will drive almost every weekend for 30-60 minutes with their bikes and kayaks for recreation. If you avoid the popular trails and rec areas (e.g., Muir Woods), you can get somewhere very peaceful fairly quickly. I think the balance between city and access to nature works for a lot of people who live in the Bay Area.
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