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Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

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Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#281

Post by callesgg »

moultano wrote: post #8

Are there leading candidate hypotheses for the cause of autism? Do we know things like heritability, correlation with environmental pollutants, anything?

There are studies that shows that all of those things have effects on the likelyhood of a person becoming autistic.

Autism is a complex mental thought pattern that I think is best described as having “erroneous“ metacoginitive models. That is people with autism has problems “comprehending” how the mind works on a intuitive level. Not “comprehending” the mind then leads to them having a hard time following other people’s thought trains. And various other problems.

Why people get in to that thought pattern differs between individuals. So “Ultimate” cause is not so easy.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#282

Post by [deleted] »

mvn9 wrote: post #167
neonate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear your theories if you'd be willing to share them.

Not OP, but I fancy this rough theory: According to armchair psychologists and a joke, the answer to every psychological question is 'your mother'. If you look at ways to deal with conflicts [1], it could be that being transgender is a form of dealing with inner conflicts. Being autistic means that there is some distortion (no judgement intended) in the relationship to other people. The distortion most likely origina…

[deleted]

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#283

Post by wittyreference »

jjcothrow wrote: post #277

Can someone answer my genuine question on this topic? At my high school in California I knew a trans girl (m to f used she/her) that was super chill and maybe a bit on the spectrum. At the same time there were a couple dozen girls that called themselves trans and asked everyone to use they/them but acted and dressed all 100% within female stereotypes (not that trans is about stereotypes I’m just illustrating my point…

> Has the term trans grown beyond just (for lack of a better term) those with body dysmorphia?

As far as I am aware, no. But bear in mind that there’s not always an abrupt transition between gender-associated behavior, due to social circumstances beyond personal preference. High School, a setting which implies an age where parental figures retain overwhelming leverage over minors’ lives, is a fairly good example. E.g. clothing choices at home are open to parental scrutiny, whereas pronoun use at school is not.

Beyond that, though, like any term that is applied at one’s own volition and in response to subjective internal cues, there is going to be some variation in the folks identifying that way. Not in a “liar” sort of way, just in a “there’s no precise cut-off on what behaviors or feelings constitute trans” kind of way.

Especially as social stigma decreases or, depending on one’s precise social micro-environment, possibly even turns into a form of social prestige. Again, without any deceit intended, you can imagine that someone that feels they fall in a gray area and needs to explore their identity may verbalize (or even conceptualize) that feeling differently based on the quality and magnitude of social connotation.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#284

Post by BTCOG »

renaicirc wrote: post #161
timwaagh wrote: post #45

trans people, might reasonably be described as people "whose attempts to make friends are odd and typically unsuccessful". Since that phrase got ripped straight off the dsm diagnostic criteria for autism on https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-diagnosis-criteria-dsm-5 , it should not be any surprise whatsoever that these are correlated (same as with any other category of significantly 'odd' people).

> trans people, might reasonably be described as people "whose attempts to make friends are odd and typically unsuccessful". This is a thoroughly bizarre assertion. Why can trans people be described thus?

This is also not the case in many real life examples of trans friends who readily are outgoing and make friends I see and know. I believe they were using that quote from something above that was mentioned as being a quote from autism spectrum disorder, and they were using it as a parallel. It's also not the case in many autistic friends, though. I know many close friends on the spectrum that are loud, outgoing and make friends very readily.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#285

Post by empthought »

joshuamorton wrote: post #175
empthought wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people of any identity would agree with me... but are we outnumbered by those who are rigorously inspecting what toys a four-year-old is playing with, as a lens towards gauging their future conformity to one traditional gender role or the other?

The deconstruction of gender norms is relatively common among gender-progressive people. You seem to be confusing inspecting toys for conformity and inspecting systems that encourage (or require) conformity. And it's much easier to attack or be concerned about straw-positions than actual ones. It's not problematic for someone to play with toys, or do things, stereotypical to their gender. It's a problem when they are…

This is an actual position, not a straw position.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/a43702/trans...

The only way this person could resolve her discomfort at her child’s inclination to play with “girl things” was to start considering her a girl.

Meanwhile where are the “gender-progressive” people sticking up for a two-year old’s right to play with whatever toys they want without sanction or punishment? Certainly not raising any concerns about this sort of story.

Combine it with the well-documented higher incidence of gender nonconformity of cis gay people at a young age, we see many supposedly “progressive” people allowing the sentiment “better a straight daughter than a gay son” get normalized without challenge.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#286

Post by Macha »

jmcgough wrote: post #57
neonate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear your theories if you'd be willing to share them.

Trans people in general were largely ignored by research until the 2010s, so there's very little we do know at this point. But as for unresearched hunches... There's lots of jokes in the trans community about how your stereotypical trans girl is on the autism spectrum, with rainbow-colored hair, and into kink, anime, and programming. I think there's more of a willingness to challenge societal expectations of us in th…

> and into kink, anime, and programming.

The anime one is an interesting example, because I've seen the perspective in the anime community is that trans people are also disproportionately common there, similar to your mention that anime is an interest that is disproportionately common among trans communities.

The common brightly coloured hair seems to come from the fact that society is not fully accepting of trans people and depending on the level of that in your social circles, it may feel like you need to break a taboo just to be yourself, so other social expectations (like modest hair colours) are also downgraded in importance.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#287

Post by ookdatnog »

eanzenberg wrote: post #76
XorNot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making claims like that generally no nothing of the procedure by which mental health issues are diagnosed - which is to say, mental health treatment is about addressing issues which are negatively affecting someone's quality of life, until they are not. This is the same reason you can't just go through the DSM V and ascribe mental health conditions to people on TV or in the media or whatnot - it doesn't work t…

Don’t they have much higher suicide rates? How happy can that be?

The appropriate comparison to judge the treatment is not "suicide rate in trans people vs in the general population" but "suicide rate in trans people vs in people who experience dysphoria but do not transition".

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#288

Post by chordalkeyboard »

sascha_sl wrote: post #208
lemonberry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of Abigail Shrier's book "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters"? She was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently though I have yet to listen to it. A quick search turned up, not surprisingly, some negative critiques and others that are more positive. If you have heard of it, or read it, I'd love to hear what you think of her position. I appreciate the offer to be part of a dialogue. I think it's import…

I've watched the stream, and it painful. Not only is the book built on very little evidence, but Shrier just gets so many things wrong on stream, I have to wonder if she actually did her homework. Things that aren't even up for debate like effects of HRT, even in instances where it'd strengthen the optics of her argument. It doesn't help that Rogan only seems to have one hard opinion (legalize drugs) and seems to dis…

> I'm still hoping he'll eventually have a trans person on (that's not Debbie Hayton, Blair White or Buck Angel).

why not one of them?

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#289

Post by Eiskugel »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #174
andreskytt wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. What you describe about not fitting in etc. is very similar to my experience. Only that I’m a straight male. Could it be that transitioning is not so much about gender but about fitting in? If I could put a name to my angst and the barriers with others, it might be “transgender”. Which could give me a community of similar folks, a measure of acceptance, a handle, on why I’m not like the others. The resea…

I can't speak for anyone else, but I transitioned before I had met another tg person. When I transitioned I was already apart of a social group. I didn't need to fit in or find my place. When I was a kid I got along with both boys and girls making friends with both. People do seek out others like themselves, but transgender communities are rare, because transgender people are rare. There are not many of them. When th…

Interestingly enough in computer nerd communities, tg are more common then females.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#290

Post by bsanr2 »

fxtentacle wrote: post #279
bsanr2 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if studying gender affirmation among cis people wouldn't help to solidify the science behind transitioning and well-being. With presentation of gender being as much of a spectrum as gender itself, it would stand to reason that there are cis individuals who experience dysphoria by way of not physically presenting as as masculine or feminine as they feel themselves to be ( waves ). Non-clinical avenues are som…

Since "gender dysphoria" hasn't been scientifically defined yet, you're free to make up a definition so that everyone has it ;)

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphori...
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