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Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

californiaglobe.com

171–180 of 386 posts

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#171
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only within their refund period. I have had so many products break down after their return window. Most recent example: Expensive chargers which stopped work within a few months. The seller’s page was gone. Customer support was of no use. This seems to be a common pattern. Fly by night sellers whose pages disappear within a few days.

I had that happen and the agent advised me to do a chargeback!

Then Amazon nukes your account.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#172

Wow, here is the actual decision : https://cases.justia.com/california/court-of-appeal/2020-d07... It definitely looks like Amazon is going to have to accept strict liability in California. That will make it interesting to see what they do. Do they leave California? (their biggest US market) or do they clean up their FBA act? I'm hoping for the latter, as the justices argue in the decision that is exactly the intent…

Perhaps Amazon would require third-party sellers to have liability insurance or post an adequate bond to cover claims for goods shipped to California.

Sellers then might need to increase prices for goods shipped to California. Alternatively, they could be "not eligible for shipment to California".

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#173
This is a good place to ask this question: Lately, we’re trying to buy products on Amazon only if it says, “Sold by Amazon.com.” Is that a good way to ensure that the product is not counterfeit? The assumption is that if Amazon is selling something directly, it would be getting it directly from the real manufacturer.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#174
post #60

Shopping on Amazon has become unbearable for like 95% of categories these days. The experience is like rummaging through some shady tourist market with a dozen stall owners trying to scam you. The pricing is all whack with lots of counterfeits that have gamed the ranking and review systems. It’s just not worth trying to filter and find things that are actually competitively priced and sold directly by Amazon. Have no…

Now, imagine you are using Amazon.ca where many of the legitimate .com vendors aren't even there or are there and are price gouging or have massive shipping fees.

Amazon.ca has become such a cesspool and so much worse in the past 6 months, I've just stopped buying from it.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#175
post #60

Shopping on Amazon has become unbearable for like 95% of categories these days. The experience is like rummaging through some shady tourist market with a dozen stall owners trying to scam you. The pricing is all whack with lots of counterfeits that have gamed the ranking and review systems. It’s just not worth trying to filter and find things that are actually competitively priced and sold directly by Amazon. Have no…

Here's an example for anybody who doubts this; go search for: a) an Oximeter b) a medical thermometer c) a blood pressure cuff These are all fairly relevant devices. Spend 10 minutes really researching the categories, and actually read the reviews (in particular the 5* and the 1* reviews). Can you find a combination fo devices that you're actually confident buying? It shouldn't be this hard.

The reason for this is the reputable products are all sold out. The usual response would be to increase prices to keep them in stock, but currently amazon bans sellers who do that because of price gouging laws, and so sellers list their stock on other platforms instead.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#176

eBay is not same-same, it's much more marketplace-esque. eBay does not use a consolidated product listing, much more like a bulletin board each sellers products being sold under it's own URL. Amazon consolidates the listing for all sellers into a single product and uses their own ranking algorithms to determine which seller is in the "buy box" (which accounts for 97% of the items sales velocity). Amazon treats the en…

> Amazon treats the entire experience as their transaction, they anonymize the emails and don't allow sellers to send follow-messages to clients or market other products to them (package inserts)

That hasn't been true for a quite a while. They changed this because product liability lawsuits used this to argue Amazon owns the customer relationship. As a result there were several HN posts outraged about no longer having privacy when purchasing products.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#177
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had that happen and the agent advised me to do a chargeback!

Then Amazon nukes your account.

Which account is getting nuked? The buyers or the sellers?

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#178
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't even report that the reason for your return is that you suspect or know that the item you received is counterfeit during the return process. If Amazon cared about a problem this big, they would collect metrics from customers on it.

When I left Amazon the fastest growing team in the country was the antifraud team and they already had like 2 floors of agents working on it. But I also heard that issues which hadn't occured 3 times in a row were dropped on the floor because of Amazon's scale. This was quite a few years ago now, I can only imagine Amazon is spending more money on the problem now vs then. not to defend Amazon, but maybe the scale of…

Somehow Home Depot sells a lot of things and none of them appear graymarket or fraudulent.

This problem exists because Amazon wanted it to exist. They chose to do business in a way that avoids traditional checks and balances.

The scale of the problem is entirely on them.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't even report that the reason for your return is that you suspect or know that the item you received is counterfeit during the return process. If Amazon cared about a problem this big, they would collect metrics from customers on it.

You can definitely report items as "inauthentic" and they will be escalated to the seller. Amazon gates sellers by category and ASIN and will remove selling privileges based on complaints. I don't think most people here have any idea 3P/FBA selling works. It takes a lot of work to get listed and move into new categories, and you can be removed very quickly for the slightest of reasons. This goes to show the scale of…

> I don't think most people here have any idea 3P/FBA selling works. It takes a lot of work to get listed and move into new categories, and you can be removed very quickly for the slightest of reasons. This goes to show the scale of the problem in policing logistics at this scale (not to say that Amazon shouldn't be responsible for it).

I am not new to 3P/FBA myself. I ran a store in my college days 2010-2012, and know number of Alibaba, and Amazon employees who were directly involved into managing vendors.

Among Chinese vendors, there is a very ambivalent attitude towards Amazon. People know that Amazon is at a times can be n-times more profitable than an analogous listing on Aliexpress, or any other smaller platform, but at the same time an extremely zealous enforcement is a giant turnoff to proper vendors.

Nobody who is ready to play "by the rules" goes to sell on Amazon among Chinese vendors because you can spend tens of thousands of bucks invested in the store for it be deletes without any questions asked.

Add to that that better vendors will not be bothering with creating shell companies, or using fake IDs to get Amazon verification. This way, Amazon has driven off the few proper vendors from China they had, and now they have to deal with fly-by-night, quick money types as they are the only ones who are ready to tolerate this treatment.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#180
post #153
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"duracell" cr2032s -- those little pancake batteries for your car keyfob -- that die within 4 months. Which is weird, because the duracells at my hardware store last like 5 years.

When you buy these fakes from Amazon are they sold by Amazon? Or are they 3P sellers? Or is the problem that FBA sellers are infecting legitimate "sold by Amazon" inventory?

If Amazon commingles the inventory from unknown supply chains, how can any of it be called "legitimate"?
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