Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#271

Post by krick » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:49 AM UTC

pfarnsworth wrote: post #184

No he didn't, he said no such thing. If you listen to the video, all he did was say he knows nothing about the issues, but he'll "look into it." That's his standard line. He wasn't actually saying he was considering it at all. Honestly, I don't think he would really have any intention to pardon Snowden. It gains him no points with the left, and would damage him with his base supporters. That's probably why the media…

I didn't see the video, but if it's true it's extremely funny (and wording @ reuters suggests it is exactly true). Nothing happened, then journalists (as usual) created a catchy title and extremely misleading news-story out of it, and here now HN users are all over themselves having a lively discussion and angrily arguing about the topic and hardly anybody even bothered to verify it.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#272

Post by darksaints » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:51 AM UTC

listenallyall wrote: post #161

smt88 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politically, he just says insane things that get headlines, which distract from the real news: Covid killing hundreds of thousands under his care, dismantling of the Post Office, and other highly unpopular consequences of his presidency.

>> Covid killing hundreds of thousands under his care but, but, but... it was going to kill millions!!! https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/the-coronavirus-could-kill-m... https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/millions-could-...

We're 3/4 of the way there, infections growing at the fastest rate yet, and no vaccine yet. It looks like 1 million will fall short of actual deaths by the time this is through.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#273

Post by tbronchain » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:52 AM UTC

lightgreen wrote: post #234

bamboozled wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was thinking the same thing, sounds like he's looking to win some votes back.

This is a good thing, right? Polititians try to do the right things to win votes. This is how democracy works.

It is the right thing when they have consistent ideas they do - or will implement.

It is the wrong thing when they publicly consider a bunch of things they won't do, or do tiny but loud actions without consistency, that are not aligned with their political agenda but just wish to win votes.

Disclaimer: I'm not American, but that's a pattern we unfortunately see a lot these days

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#274

Post by refurb » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:52 AM UTC

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #236

refurb wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Biden agreed to 3 debates and Trump asked for a 4th which Biden declined.[1] [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-rejects-trumps-push-f...

Not sure honestly and I can't read that article (paywall). I recently (just a few days ago) read official acceptance of the debate committee schedule had only been completed by Biden campaign. So maybe Trump proposed 4 but then hasn't accepted the actual invite yet?

Maybe. Article doesn't state he's accepted any invites.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#275

Post by sneak » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:52 AM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #135

bilbo0s wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I would advise Snowden to ever come to the US. Pardon or no pardon. And I mean that in a very caring way. The people after him are dangerous, and they don't care about laws, or rights. Think Erik Prince, but actually smart, methodical, and quiet. Oh, and there are thousands of them. For Mr Snowden, this is not a game.

Can you elaborate? Are there murderous independent elements within the NSA and CIA that would do this to an American citizen? I’m a huge cynic, but perhaps too naive about this. That all sounds very scary, especially when the leak was about a very large institutional apparatus that feels too big for anyone to take it personally.

Snowden asserted clearly, on at least two different occasions, on the record, that the IC would not hesitate to assassinate Bart Gellman, a US journalist, if doing so would have prevented the publication or further distribution of the documents Snowden provided him.

Gellman writes about both of these occasions in his book Dark Mirror, which I recommend you read if you’re interested in becoming less naive about the American spy apparatus.

Additionally, the commander in chief of the entirety of the US military, including all of the IC (CIA et al), has plainly stated that Snowden should be executed. Note that Snowden has not at this time yet been put on trial, and the US constitution establishes the presumption of innocence, so such an event if it were to occur would be accurately described, legally, as an extrajudicial assassination of a US citizen.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272...

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#276

Post by monocasa » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:52 AM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #267

monocasa wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The FISC found that the FBI created an “unduly lax” environment in which “maximal use” of these invasive searches was “a routine and encouraged practice.” .. to the point of unconstituainality, using a database with records of most Americans in it. That is definition "mass surveillance on Americans".

> using a database with records of most Americans in it. How did you make up this "records of most Americans in it" claim? How would communications between targeted non-citizens outside the US with other non-citizens outside the US contain records of most Americans? To understand the article you posted, you have to understand the terms in it first. Since I'm being rate-limited, some responses to the comment below (if…

The NSA believes it only has to be accurate "51%" of the time, with no court oversight that they're hitting that goal.

The court above had found out that the FBI routinely didn't follow it, to the point of an unconstitutional view of the program as a whole. They weren't following the rules you're laying out.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#277

Post by pdr2020 » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:56 AM UTC

lightgreen wrote: post #234

bamboozled wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was thinking the same thing, sounds like he's looking to win some votes back.

This is a good thing, right? Polititians try to do the right things to win votes. This is how democracy works.

Yes. Whether they truly believe in what they do or not, I would prefer a politician like Trump over an "internally consistent" one like Carrie Lam/Xi.

At least Trump is scared enough to act differently than how he might truly believe.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#278

Post by triceratops » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 5:58 AM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #268

AlexCoventry wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, taxes are lower for the rich, environmental regulations pose much less hindrance to exploitative industries, there are more conservative judges, and at least 10s of millions of libs have been triggered. Metrics aligned with the general welfare of the US, though? Not so much.

There is one other: he has managed not to start any new wars yet. Which is a pretty big deal, even though I think he is pretty terrible in every other way.

Not for lack of trying: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleima...

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#279

Post by ttyprintk » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 6:00 AM UTC

djur wrote: post #212

refurb wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump really hasn't taken the lead in much in the way of legislative action, almost ever. First major tax reform in decades?

Entirely driven by congressional Republicans.

Senate Rs, IIRC. The boilerplate started with Paul Ryan; House Rs demanded it be revenue neutral. The wonks who drafted Tax Cuts and Jobs noticed a major revenue-melting rewrite down to one page by Mnuchin. Senate Rs had to suppress their deficit hawks, namely Corker, and House Rs “folded like a cheap suit” -- Jim Cramer. The sentiment from waving a single page bill around was that, really, any act would do, and only the corporate tax cut mattered. This is what led to the bill including hand-written changes in the margin.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#280

Post by mindcrime » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 6:01 AM UTC

cryptonector wrote: post #65

mindcrime wrote: post #54

I'll be impressed when he actually issues a pardon. I'd say Trump is notorious for "talking about" things without ever delivering anything. Take the issue of 50 state concealed carry reciprocity. Regardless of what you think about this issue yourself, it seems clear that Trump has tried to pander to gun owners and 2A advocates by constantly talking about this. But last I heard, there had been no meaningful action on…

It's easy to promise controversial things that require Congressional action and cannot pass Congress. The President -no matter who they are or what Congressional action they promised- can't even push their allies in Congress to do something that can't work because of the filibuster or lack of sufficient majorities. Every candidate, and every President, promises things that they know Congress won't likely deliver -- c…

What you say is true. And all I'm saying in turn is that Trump strikes me as being unusually insincere, even for a politician, in terms of the things he talks up and then never throws any meaningful support behind. Yes, all politicians pander, but I think this particular politician has made it an art form like few others.