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Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

reuters.com

41–50 of 404 posts

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#41
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what a fair trial means to people...his own admissions include describing his own illegal activity...

You can admit guilt and plead innocent. It's weird, but it's true. And the jury can acquit in spite of overwhelming evidence of guilt. That's how the anglosaxon system of criminal justice works (or used to; perhaps this is only true now in the U.S.?).

A jury can...but that really depends on the opinions of the jury.

It's not like a legal argument about what you knew or when and what the law says about your responsibility / actions.

A jury ignoring admissions of crimes is pretty rare and a roll of the dice.

I get why people would want that to happen, but expecting that random chance of an outcome and using it to measure fairness, I dunno, they're likely to be disappointed.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've addressed the President's possible motivations. But, do you think Snowden should be pardoned? Just curious. (It's a tough call. I've not decided my own position on the matter.)

Snowden is charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, under the 1917 Espionage Act. His unauthorized disclosures of classified information caused grave damage to the national security of the United States and allowed enemies of the United States to better conceal their commun…

If you were the real Henry Kissinger, I think your disapproval would be a great reason to pardon Snowden.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#43

Politically, bringing back Snowden brings back the issue, Obama/Biden era big government spying program Prism. Trump: Remember everyone, Biden used to spy on you. This is similar to when he did a press conference with all of Bill Clinton’s accusers. Just a means to an end for Trump.

If this is the case, not a bad strategy for Trump. In general, I assume that any move by a politician is made entirely out of self-interest.

Yeah I mean, if he pardons before the debates, suddenly that takes up a debate topic slot. All he has to do is directly ask Biden, ‘You don’t think Snowden did the right thing by exposing your administration’s surveillance program?’. It’s such an easy win, and will take mindshare away from other issues (coronavirus response, police reform, Medicare/social security cuts). Add a TikTok ban in there and take up another debate slot, fill it in with all the anti China stuff.

There are things he can do to set the stage for sure.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've addressed the President's possible motivations. But, do you think Snowden should be pardoned? Just curious. (It's a tough call. I've not decided my own position on the matter.)

Snowden is charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, under the 1917 Espionage Act. His unauthorized disclosures of classified information caused grave damage to the national security of the United States and allowed enemies of the United States to better conceal their commun…

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#45
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s unlikely Snowden would ever receive a fair trial, therefore a pardon is the best course of action, erring on the side of compassion versus “justice” typically dispensed by the US justice system. What he revealed about the domestic surveillance apparatus violating US law and citizens’ rights had significant value to nation. Regardless, if this is how the pardon comes about, I happily support it even if it…

I wonder what a fair trial means to people...his own admissions include describing his own illegal activity...

Without going too deep down the "jury nullification" rabbit hole, I'll just say that it's entirely reasonable to admit taking an action that is prohibited by law, while pleading not guilty to violating the same law. You may argue that there were extenuating circumstances that pre-empt the law in the specific case, or you may argue that the law itself is inherently wrong, etc. Yes, it's difficult to win an acquittal like this, but it does happen.

That we can't just mechanically apply the law like the axioms of mathematics is part of the very reason that we have judges, juries, and the adversarial system, to allow for some measure of human judgement in the process.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#46
post #38

The CIA will instagib Snowden the instant it is physically possible for them to do so. A pardon will never change that. The commander of the CIA states it plainly: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272... (Remember, we're talking about the same CIA that hacked US congressional computers, because the congress was investigating the CIA’s torture record and they wanted to cover it up. Then the CIA…

With a pardon he could travel. He wouldn't have to leave Russia either. In time those who want him dead might fade away. Even if he never left Russia, a pardon might sway some voters one way or the other. Of course a pardon is relevant! (Not saying he should be pardoned, or that he shouldn't be.)

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#47
post #38

The CIA will instagib Snowden the instant it is physically possible for them to do so. A pardon will never change that. The commander of the CIA states it plainly: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272... (Remember, we're talking about the same CIA that hacked US congressional computers, because the congress was investigating the CIA’s torture record and they wanted to cover it up. Then the CIA…

Except a pardon would mean he could move back to the US and leave Russia

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#48
post #38

The CIA will instagib Snowden the instant it is physically possible for them to do so. A pardon will never change that. The commander of the CIA states it plainly: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272... (Remember, we're talking about the same CIA that hacked US congressional computers, because the congress was investigating the CIA’s torture record and they wanted to cover it up. Then the CIA…

Except a pardon would mean he could move back to the US and leave Russia

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. If he ever sets foot in the US again, he will be quietly and instantly murdered by his former coworkers, even after he is pardoned.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#50
post #38

The CIA will instagib Snowden the instant it is physically possible for them to do so. A pardon will never change that. The commander of the CIA states it plainly: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272... (Remember, we're talking about the same CIA that hacked US congressional computers, because the congress was investigating the CIA’s torture record and they wanted to cover it up. Then the CIA…

It’s relevant in the sense that he could maybe get a legit visa and leave Russia at some point.
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