Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 358 posts

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#41

Post by scott31 »

anchpop wrote: post #19
empthought wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the distinguishing characteristic of someone who is gender fluid vs. someone who is not?

There isn't one, besides them identifying as genderfluid. Same as any other gender identity (like man or woman). I think this makes the terms slightly less useful but it is very important to some people that they're used this way

> Same as any other gender identity (like man or woman).

I think there are some distinguishing characteristics for someone who is male vs someone who is female.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#42

Post by leephillips »

zaksoup wrote: post #35
leephillips wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your objections are all from imagined motivation (“dog whistle”) or from imagined consequences of my being right. These are both informal fallacies, and not legitimate forms of argumentation. Unless you believe that the current unprecedented epidemic of adolescent girls deciding that they are trans has an organic origin, somebody is convincing them of this. My objections to the study are logical objections. Since the…

Sorry if I was unclear. I did not mean to imply any specific motivation of yours . That being said, the example you used is a dog whistle commonly used by folks whose motivations I have no problem imagining, and it is used to perpetrate violence towards trans people. Furthermore, as I feel quite certain that, given your lack of evidence, you are not right, the consequences I "imagine" are not stemming from you being…

So what do you think it is, probably? A mass mutation? Something in the water?

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#43

Post by lemonberry »

claudeganon wrote: post #26
lemonberry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of Abigail Shrier's book "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters"? She was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently though I have yet to listen to it. A quick search turned up, not surprisingly, some negative critiques and others that are more positive. If you have heard of it, or read it, I'd love to hear what you think of her position. I appreciate the offer to be part of a dialogue. I think it's import…

It don’t think it should be part of the conversation because it seems transparently little more than culture war scapegoating for an audience hungry for a moral panic. If you want a more considered text for a general audience, I’d recommend Brynn Tanehill’s, “Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Trans (But Were Afraid to Ask).” Also useful is this point-by-point, sourced rebuttal to the misinformation Rogan repea…

Thanks for the link and info.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#44

Post by gedy »

zaksoup wrote: post #21
leephillips wrote: post #15

There are so many ways to interpret a correlation such as this. For example, one possible obvious mechanism is that people in the trans community may be more likely to encourage autistic people to believe that they “are transgender”. The study uncritically uses the concept “transgender and gender-diverse individuals have elevated rates of autism” without ascribing any operational meaning to “transgender and gender-di…

I've flagged this comment but I also feel the need to write a response because this kind of uncritical dog-whistle is something that actively contributes to violence against trans people. There's no evidence to suggest that trans folks encourage anybody, including autistic folks, to "believe that they're trans." However, there is myriad evidence that fear of trans folks "converting" other people is one of the motivat…

I know this is just an online forum, but the equating of any form of questioning or critiquing of trans activism with physical violence, causing suicide, or general hatred is really counter productive IMHO, and diminishes the actual struggles trans individuals have with families, coworkers, etc.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#45

Post by timwaagh »

trans people, might reasonably be described as people "whose attempts to make friends are odd and typically unsuccessful". Since that phrase got ripped straight off the dsm diagnostic criteria for autism on https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-diagnosis-criteria-dsm-5, it should not be any surprise whatsoever that these are correlated (same as with any other category of significantly 'odd' people).

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#46

Post by trans-stealth »

jcims wrote: post #36
hh3k0 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. I have often heard it in a sense of "should not be catered to but rather given medical help". A fellow student once told me that he considers the current way of treating gender dysphoria irresponsible and that, if we'd treat schizophrenia the way we treat gender dysphoria, we'd all have to aknowledge the voices they hear and…

> I have often heard it in a sense of "should not be catered to but rather given medical help". The thing i worry about is that folks that go through all of the physical and emotional (and financial) stress of transitioning only to find that it doesn’t soothe the pain are likely to perceive a social pressure to keep a lid on it. The current trend of acceptance is obviously good but it seems likely our approach to tre…

> The thing i worry about is that folks that go through all of the physical and emotional (and financial) stress of transitioning only to find that it doesn’t soothe the pain are likely to perceive a social pressure to keep a lid on it.

Nope, "de-transitioners" are very welcome in the trans community, to tell their story, to hang out, to help others.

There's absolutely nothing that should force them to not speak out about their experiences as long as they treat others with basic respect; there are a few that have turned religious zealot and sue people.

Detransiton / desisting is relatively rare and frequently happens not because the person desisted trans identity but because they couldn't feasibly continue to transition due social or financial causes.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#47

Post by austincheney »

vmception wrote: post #11

Some detractors often say transgender people have mental health issues. But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. A reality is that: A) Gender dysphoria is an imbalance of neural state. Therefore that would by definition be a mental health issue but not like the detractors say. B) Acknowledging and accommodating gender dysphoria discomfort costs cisgender people nothi…

Making the assumption that a mental health issue, perhaps disorder, equates to an illness is a non scientific prejudice.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#48

Post by dx87 »

8note wrote: post #39
leephillips wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your objections are all from imagined motivation (“dog whistle”) or from imagined consequences of my being right. These are both informal fallacies, and not legitimate forms of argumentation. Unless you believe that the current unprecedented epidemic of adolescent girls deciding that they are trans has an organic origin, somebody is convincing them of this. My objections to the study are logical objections. Since the…

Epidemic implies some kind of disease no? Telling people they're sick for existing is certainly unkindness

No, an epidemic is just anything spreading within a group.

> Epidemic: affecting or tending to affect a disproportionately large number of individuals within a population, community, or region at the same time.

Edit: You know people can't have an adult conversation on a topic when the definition of a word is downvoted.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#49

Post by Kaze404 »

scott31 wrote: post #41
anchpop wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't one, besides them identifying as genderfluid. Same as any other gender identity (like man or woman). I think this makes the terms slightly less useful but it is very important to some people that they're used this way

> Same as any other gender identity (like man or woman). I think there are some distinguishing characteristics for someone who is male vs someone who is female.

"Male" and "female" aren't genders.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#50

Post by hoorayimhelping »

vmception wrote: post #11

Some detractors often say transgender people have mental health issues. But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. A reality is that: A) Gender dysphoria is an imbalance of neural state. Therefore that would by definition be a mental health issue but not like the detractors say. B) Acknowledging and accommodating gender dysphoria discomfort costs cisgender people nothi…

>Acknowledging and accommodating gender dysphoria discomfort costs cisgender people nothing and unlocks the productiveness of an additional population in society.

This seems like a pretty broad generalization. Forget the semantic fact that by definition, accommodating something takes effort. Some people's worldviews may not account for gender identity being expressed this way. Whether you agree or disagree with the worldview, saying it costs them nothing to acknowledge it seems pretty unfair. Especially when it assigns a label to people its imploring to be accepting and accommodating of. It's a strange way to try to win allies.

Post reply on HN