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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I dropped out of International Relations to go be an autodidact hacker in the dotcom boom, I noted that the degree program was basically a track to work at the State Department. The professors were highly enthusiastic about it as a profession. Granted this may have just been my school. I didn’t find any of it relevant at the time. Fast forward 25 years and now that my IT work is distributed full-remote global op…

What value is it that you think you got from those classes and not 20 years of professional experience?

Nothing in my business experiences matched the experience of the British explorer-aristocrat who guest lectured one day.

He was supposedly in his 80s but appeared 60. His ancestors were some kind of lords of the forests; his father was responsible for training Gurkhas, though he himself preferred the company of the muhajadeen as a boy (photos provided).

He displayed gold disks which could buy humans at certain markets, and spoke of tribes which taught him how to travel in Dreamtime. It was literally thrilling stuff, all too fantastic to believe if not for the artifacts....

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#432
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

> In reality, they didn't need to save the minimal room and board fees of a state school; they were mostly just cowards I don't know when the last time you've lived in dorms was, but they're glorified summer camps for adolescents. Having meal plans and an RA aren't exactly badges of courage. If you don't come from means or have parents that will help pay for you to move out, then taking on living expenses to study is…

In the UK, we had a maintenance book where you could report things that were broken (even things as trivial as a light bulb - you were told _not_ to replace them on your own), porters who you could give you a spare key if you lost yours and were responsible for external security, catered meals three times a day that were cheap enough that cooking for yourself was fairly pointless from a financial standpoint unless it was something very basic, subsidised rents (which also covered utilities), and an onsite bar. It wasn't exactly a step into the real world - you had a _lot_ done for you.

Personally, I wouldn't change it for the world. Student loans covered the expenses (which as you only pay as a small percentage of your wage above a certain amount and are written off after 30 years if you haven't paid them aren't worth worry about too much), and it had both academic and social benefits. Supervisions often started after 18:00 and occasionally ran on til 23:00, and you could have lectures at 9:00 the next morning, which would be a pain with a commute, and you had easier access to resources (libraries, computing facilities).

I threw myself into the social side, having been fairly reclusive during secondary school - I felt much more comfortable doing so living on site, and I got involved in extra curricular activities I wouldn't have done if I had a commute. I had close friends studying law, natural sciences, economics, engineering, medicine, English, anthropology, and music (I studied computer science), and developed a better understanding of and appreciation for these subjects as a result (I remember discussing Roman law somehow becoming a bizarrely frequent subject in first year). I'm still in almost daily contact with the friendship group I formed there, even ten years on. I did a Master's afterwards, and lived at home, and I never felt as connected to either my studies or my peer group.

Still, I certainly wouldn't call anyone who doesn't do that a coward, and think you could get a similar or better experience living off campus at home. It just turned out to be the right step for me[1] - it pushed me enough out of my comfort zone to grow without leaving me feeling lost - and gave me a much better university experience as a result.

[1] And it was effectively required by my university - you have to live within three miles of the city centre, required permission to live outside of college, and you weren't allowed to keep a car within ten miles of the city centre without permission (https://www.proctors.cam.ac.uk/motor-control)

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#433
post #391
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries In what OECD countries do students go into crippling debt for their tertiary education? There are only two that I know of, one of which being the USA.

Well don't leave us hanging, what's the other one?

Canada's system is pretty messed up, tons of people graduate with $50k-$100k in debt, and interest and forced payments kick in essentially the day you graduate.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#434
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, this is very tough. I think the problem is (and I very much hope I am wrong!) that an outbreak will occur and your university will still have the financial problems. And also some more sick and dead people. (All from a US perspective) There's been a crazy notion floating around from the start on this, that we can either keep our normal activities/economy (jobs, businesses, schools, etc) or deal with the pandemic…

Nope, even with 100% lockdown, it still spreads because we aren’t an island country. It even got to Auckland now, through freight! You can only delay the inevitable (unless a vaccine is developed in the next few months)

Yeah you aren't trying to get it to 0% rate... you are trying to reduce it to a traceable and manageable amount...

Kind of missing the point of what it means to "get it under control"

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#435
post #106

I'm a professor at a regional university. Not a big name school, but we have about 5,000 students. We would be bankrupt if we told students we'd only be offering classes online this fall because students, by an overwhelming majority, want the in-person experience. We know we would lose enrollment if we went fully online this fall, and the drop would be significant enough for the university to declare bankruptcy. Harv…

businesses go through these challenges all the time. the fat that gets trimmed is what makes them better.

Not always, the fat that gets trimmed is what makes things enjoyable in the first place.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#436
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of universities own residence buildings on and around campus. Students sign leases with the university directly.

Some private universities go as far as mandating undergraduates live in campus housing for up to three years.

I attended a private college. Not only did I have to live on campus for all four years, but additionally, they forced you to purchase the meal plan. I made most of my meals myself; nonetheless, I had no choice but to pay for the meal plan.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ) I’m in university right now. I just finished a term of online classes. I’ve definitely witnessed those benefits being enjoyed by other students but I haven’t had the time to enjoy them myself; my program is simply too difficult for that. The most I’ve enjoyed is going out for drinks…

> The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Not true at all. Perhaps they may not end up with the best GPA but they'll do good enough to get a useful degree while having a strong network. It may not have been the healthiest lifestyle for the time being, but they made it out fine. Source: A large part of my college social circle who ended up in fruitful STEM/co…

If someone didn’t have to commute or work a lot of hours in a part time job, they should have more than enough time to do those things while studying enough. Or maybe they prefer to hit the gym, there are lots of options.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#438
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a number of students attending virtually in the fall who are renting near campus with their friends.

But isn't that worsening the problem? Going to a college town with friends is a recipe for community spread

Worse compared to what? Compared to living together and attending class in person it's an improvement.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#439
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of universities own residence buildings on and around campus. Students sign leases with the university directly.

Some private universities go as far as mandating undergraduates live in campus housing for up to three years.

Some public universities do that as well.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#440
post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

If anything, we'll observe the outcome of this experiment and use the results the help inform future course of action. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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