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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

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Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#361

Post by echaozh »

khuey wrote: post #164
Zafira wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese culture remains very authoritarian in a lot of ways. You can see attempts to get out of this, but it's hard. I know people who emigrated from Taiwan before marital law was finally lifted and they were also terrified, even in the US, of criticizing Chiang Kai-Shek. I was told that there were minders on the streets in Taiwan and you might just disappear if they heard you complaining.

The KMT assassinated Henry Liu in California in the 1980s so they weren't crazy to be afraid.

You do realize that what KMT and Taiwan did doesn't speak for mainland China?

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#362

Post by khuey »

echaozh wrote: post #361
khuey wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The KMT assassinated Henry Liu in California in the 1980s so they weren't crazy to be afraid.

You do realize that what KMT and Taiwan did doesn't speak for mainland China?

If your implication is that the KMT is more repressive than the Communist Party my only response is laughter.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#363

Post by eSephiroth »

jcytong wrote: post #220
jariel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this comparison. PRC has total control over mainland China. There is 0 risk of fragmentation. HK is a separate entity in every sense, so is Taiwan. USSR collapsed because its economic and political system crumbled from the inside, enabling Poland et. al. to get out from under their thumb, which is what they always wanted to do. If China had economic turmoil, mainland would stay intact in one way or anothe…

The CCP might look stronger than it actually is. Due to the restricted flow of information, a lot of the conflicts are not well publicized. If the CCP were to collapse, it'd be from the inside. Xinjiang, Tibet, Taiwan always wanted independence. It's difficult enough to unify a small group so just imagine with 1.4 billion people.

Your guys don't know about 1.4b Chinese. If they are as well knowledge and informed as your guys, it's hard to unify. But if they only have one information source, one chat tool, one history book, they will be one brain-cell dummy. USSR don't have wisdom to simplify information，history and even Internet. Unified is what Chinese love to have. That's why things happen in HK. You are over estimated Chinese people. China is not USSR. People don't have gun. Government won't give up their power. Tear down China great firewall is only thing your guys can help keep freedom existing, not just for Chinese or HKer, but also for your future. Fear might over come freedom someday unexpected.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#364

Post by eSephiroth »

mindfulhack wrote: post #213

If you're feeling despair, there are real things that you can do. I do one thing that makes me proud every day. I run an obfs4 Tor bridge on an old Linux Mint box that's just sitting around in my home.* The bare minimum thing that Chinese and any other country's citizens need is information, and freedom of information. This is where tech truly, truly helps. [*] Yes, they may first need to connect to a working VPN, bu…

Tor don't work well in China. So is VPN. Chinese don't even know it exist. It's hard for none tech people. Even all Smart tech people in China know how to use these tools, it's still less than 0.00001. Make some virus-like dummy tools. As far as mobile or PC infected. They will connect global internet not China LAN. It must infect nearby devices as well. That's the only way to help.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#365

Post by eSephiroth »

Less arguing, more tools.that's what hacker shall do. Tor don't work well in China. So is VPN. Chinese don't even know it exist. It's hard for none tech people. Even all Smart tech people in China know how to use these tools, it's still less than 0.00001. Make some virus-like dummy tools, that's what hacker shall do. As far as mobile or PC infected. They will connect global internet not China LAN. It must infect nearby devices as well. That's the only way to help.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#366

Post by UIZealot »

ailun wrote: post #355
UIZealot wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you are so sure. Maybe the new national security law of HK is less than the Platonic ideal of a perfect law. Is it also fair to say that you think the National Security Law of the US is bad too? Since chloerei stated that it "is broader and stricter than China" and you didn't refute it. Can you elaborate on that? Since it's your own country and you should be much better informed to comment on that than on th…

There is no law named "National Security Law" in the United States, he was just using it as a poor deflection, as you know. Once he linked a specific law, I elaborated. You can check it out if you actually care.

I checked it, and the case you linked, out.

So there is a similar law in the US, even though it's not named "National Security Law". And you can be prosecuted under that law.

How different is it really, from the situation in HK and the national security law?

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#367

Post by pirisek453 »

xxllhan wrote: post #354

Some simple logic: 1. US media is capable of being biased on certain subjects (FOX news, Trump), for more clicks, or for political reasons 2. China is a long term threat to US economy and political systems, and is generally hated by the people right now 3. Thus it's possible that what you read everyday is biased 4. Then you hate China more, then media notices that and be more biased. It's a loop leading to justified…

"Have you been to Xinjiang yourself? You know, Xinjiang is regarded as the most beautiful place in (China)" - quote from the China Ambassador to UK when asked why Uyghur Muslims were hooded and loaded onto trains.

An average American has no reason to hate on China, but it doesn't mean we can't stand up for the ethnic groups that are being oppressed within China's borders. The congressional testimonies by the Uyghurs refugees is truly terrifying.

Doing business with China literally means you are in support of their government's actions. T-shirts, medical masks, a regular bottle of ketchup, its all made from slave labor in Xinjiang.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#368

Post by ailun »

UIZealot wrote: post #366
ailun wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no law named "National Security Law" in the United States, he was just using it as a poor deflection, as you know. Once he linked a specific law, I elaborated. You can check it out if you actually care.

I checked it, and the case you linked, out. So there is a similar law in the US, even though it's not named "National Security Law". And you can be prosecuted under that law. How different is it really, from the situation in HK and the national security law?

Well, one difference is that the Supreme Court basically killed the law as written because it conflicted with the 1st Amendment. Can you find anyone who has been prosecuted since the case I linked? Prosecutors aren’t going to use the law anymore because any judge all over the country will reject the argument. Look up how legal precedent works, I guess...

Do you think that will happen in Hong Kong? The Hong Kong law is also far broader and more vague.

Look, I don’t think I’ll be replying to you further. You’re not trying to actually learn anything, you’re extremely disingenuous, and you don’t raise any interesting points, or really any coherent argument at all. If you want to learn more about the difference between China’s legal system, or the neutered Hong Kong legal system, and the US, do it on your own. I’m not going to hold your hand anymore.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#369

Post by Grue3 »

tanilama wrote: post #253
jessaustin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any firm in history has ever been rich enough to weather a bit of a business setback, surely Apple would be?

And what does Apple get in return? Some lip service praise from media? Would US government compensate Apple with tax break? What about the jobs that might be lost? Think of Google then. Google's exit from China achieves one thing, that is becoming irrelevant to the Chinese people, while giving its competitor a free run of the world biggest internet market. Control through market is a trick that US has been playing si…

>And what does Apple get in return?

Not being complicit in genocide isn't enough reward by itself?

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#370

Post by moreorless »

Aunche wrote: post #163
moreorless wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote, I hear people call out the CPC in public places in China.

Technically China does have free speech. The problem is that the rules don't really matter. If you say something that offends a someone with guanxi with the right people, you're screwed. It's the same reason foreign businesses struggle so much in China. If you aren't friendly with the necessary bureaucrats and your Chinese competition is, you'll find yourself blockaded perpetually for the most bullshit reasons.

Why do parents go jump through hoops and are willing to break laws to get their kids into top colleges? People often say bribery is rampant in China. We have Super PACS and political donations and revolving doors.
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