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'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

sfgate.com

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Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#11

Post by kevin_b_er »

closeparen wrote: post #9
redis_mlc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force). No, it's not "illegal" to defend yourself in the USA. But get the name of a witness or you could end up in court for years. Many laws allow a defense, but you're responsible for meeting the burden of proof and legal fees. (The castle doctrine in some states was enacted to give property owners a…

The specific meaning of “the police don’t have to keep you safe” is that you cannot win a lawsuit against the police because you were the victim of a crime. Most communities hire police to do emergency response and would treat a failure of 911 the same way they treat a failure of water or sewer. San Francisco just values this less than other places.

It also effectively means they can brutalize you for funsies with little to no repercussion in the US.

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#12

Post by ponsin »

erlich wrote: post #7

Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue? I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained. I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.

Because you don't know what to expect from people with certain mental issues. If I see someone pacing outside my office while screaming to the devil and hitting his head, I will try to avoid him. Sure, maybe he will continue to have a mental breakdown without getting me involved, but I don't know. Now, I don't mind calling some authority other than the police, but I would prefer that if the person with the mental breakdown gets violent it will be directed at a professional who knows how to respond

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#13

Post by bzb4 »

erlich wrote: post #7

Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue? I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained. I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.

Because you find that person annoying. That’s what the police is for. Or maybe not, but it certainly works in many cases.

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#15

Post by me_againnnnnn »

erlich wrote: post #7

Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue? I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained. I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.

Haha. Because that's how it's always been done. Even at developmental centers when somebody with completely known mental issues has any behavioral issues that can't be addressed with words the police are used. It's been stupid since the beginning of time and this is probably the first time it's ever been tried to do something different, at least around here. I told them it was absolutely stupid to call the police on clients many years ago and they just couldn't have cared less. It is, at it's heart, an issue of taking responsibility for reality and just acknowledging that the system is wrong and we must spend the money to change the way we treat people. It's never been popular with voters.

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#16

Post by mindcandy »

erlich wrote: post #7

Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue? I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained. I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.

Mostly because they don’t know who else to call.

Not long ago I saw a very ragged man stumbling around and he just curled up and went to sleep in the middle of a busy road. What to do? I can stand and block traffic. But, he’s not listening to anyone and I’m not going to grab and drag someone who is that far gone.

Thankfully, before I called the police another (very likely homeless) person was braver than me. He did grab the passed-out dude, got him to his feet and over to the sidewalk to lay back down.

I’m not happy with any aspect of that event -especially not myself. But, I only had two options: get myself into a potential wrestling match with someone who was very much out of their mind, or ask a cop to do it instead.

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#17

Post by net2net2net »

redis_mlc wrote: post #4
dmitrygr wrote: post #2

I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe, as it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force, and self defense needs to be proven beyond many doubts). > The response teams will be equipped > w…

> it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force). No, it's not "illegal" to defend yourself in the USA. But get the name of a witness or you could end up in court for years. Many laws allow a defense, but you're responsible for meeting the burden of proof and legal fees. (The castle doctrine in some states was enacted to give property owners a…

> The police can enforce a law, but at the end of the day, they don't have to keep you safe in any way.

And these same people claim possession of firearms is a public safety issue. Ironic.

> An example is that the police can engage in high-speed pursuits, and if you get run over and die, that's not their problem.

That is patently dishonest. Civil courts have awarded damages for people hit by police during chases.

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#18

Post by IRANGE »

erlich wrote: post #7

Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue? I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained. I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.

I called the police on someone who was stumbling around on the sidewalk next to a calm but normally fast street. I was worried for her safety, that she was going to stumble into traffic, so I called the cops because I had no idea what else to do. In a way, I guess I assumed/hoped that they would be smart enough to dispatch a health worker after hearing what I told them.

Why didn’t I try to help the woman? Simple. I’m black. She was a drunk middle aged white woman. It would not have gone well for me.

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#19

Post by 1DRACOSEA8 »

Geez maybe they said, “No human being should be allowed to suffer if he is under the roof of the wealthiest nation in the history of man.” The pain leads to Police, the fear of seeing a future you, leads to shelter seeking grievance gazing.

Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls

#20

Post by 1DRACOSEA8 »

kevin_b_er wrote: post #11
closeparen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific meaning of “the police don’t have to keep you safe” is that you cannot win a lawsuit against the police because you were the victim of a crime. Most communities hire police to do emergency response and would treat a failure of 911 the same way they treat a failure of water or sewer. San Francisco just values this less than other places.

It also effectively means they can brutalize you for funsies with little to no repercussion in the US.

And the well to do tech bros coddle up to the testosterone filled reactionaries. “Round them up!” Easy solution, that’s just lazy, you’re not even trying. San Francisco is also not equal to the rest of the US, I would dare say it’s closer to Mexico than anything else, but culturally California is quite diverse in attitude and flora. San Francisco puts up with a lot, always have, always will. It’s just embedded in the humanitarian pro immigrant pro minority passion of our city. I believe there may be remnants of this San Francisco but it is gone for good. 250 Million for Tech Buses and Two stems at Safeway, from London to San Salvador in one fell swoop.
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