'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
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Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#2I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe, as it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force, and self defense needs to be proven beyond many doubts).
> The response teams will be equipped
> with at least one paramedic from the
> Fire Department and a behavioral health
> clinician and behavioral health peer
> from the San Francisco Department of
> Public Health.
Ok, which one of them is authorized to use force to keep me safe and stab free?
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#3I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe, as it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force, and self defense needs to be proven beyond many doubts). > The response teams will be equipped > w…
You're not from the US based on your domain name but you're generally free to defend yourself in the US even within SF.
> The defendant is not guilty of [whatever forceful act was used in self defense] if he/she used force against the other person in lawful self defense or in defense of another. The defendant acted in lawful self defense or defense of another if:
> The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she or someone else) was in imminent danger of suffering bodily injury (or was in imminent danger of being touched unlawfully);
> The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of force was necessary to defend against that danger; AND
> The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger
In your case with the very real risk of a lifelong perhaps terminal disease from the needle and with that being a biological weapon I DO NOT RECOMMEND but by law you could likely use a deadly weapon in response like a bat/knife/pole/brick in an attempt to prevent you or someone else from being stabbed. I am not a lawyer.
On the Street Crisis team front, I imagine they are all able to restrain the guy and that they will be equipped with personal defense such as tasers and mace which will be audited HEAVILY if used.
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#4I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe, as it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force, and self defense needs to be proven beyond many doubts). > The response teams will be equipped > w…
> it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force).
No, it's not "illegal" to defend yourself in the USA.
But get the name of a witness or you could end up in court for years. Many laws allow a defense, but you're responsible for meeting the burden of proof and legal fees.
(The castle doctrine in some states was enacted to give property owners a stronger legal position for self-defense than just the legal defense option. Of course, that ended up being abused by overly-entitled home owners.)
> i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe
It's a common misunderstanding that the police have an obligation to keep you safe. They don't.
The police can enforce a law, but at the end of the day, they don't have to keep you safe in any way. An example is that the police can engage in high-speed pursuits, and if you get run over and die, that's not their problem.
I can't tell if you're outside the USA, or if you missed civics class.
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#5I imagine SFPD officers will be happy to offload these particular cases. And if the Street Crisis team can't handle a particular individual, they can always bring in the police themselves.
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#6I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe, as it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force, and self defense needs to be proven beyond many doubts). > The response teams will be equipped > w…
I would hope that in cases where a weapon is being used, the actual police are dispatched, since that is no longer a mental health case and actually just a full-blown violent crime.
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#7Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue?
I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained.
I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#8Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue? I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained. I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.
People call the police without altercation all the time, with good intention, from someone sleeping on the street, using in public, having a mental episode in view of others. It's not even a I'm in danger thing a lot of the time, but a I do not know who else to call so I'll press 911 situation. I hope this works out for that city
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#9I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe, as it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force, and self defense needs to be proven beyond many doubts). > The response teams will be equipped > w…
> it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force). No, it's not "illegal" to defend yourself in the USA. But get the name of a witness or you could end up in court for years. Many laws allow a defense, but you're responsible for meeting the burden of proof and legal fees. (The castle doctrine in some states was enacted to give property owners a…
The specific meaning of “the police don’t have to keep you safe” is that you cannot win a lawsuit against the police because you were the victim of a crime.
Most communities hire police to do emergency response and would treat a failure of 911 the same way they treat a failure of water or sewer. San Francisco just values this less than other places.
Re: 'Street Crisis' team to replace San Francisco police on mental health calls
#10Why would someone call the police for a non-violent mental health issue? I can only imagine the need if there is a danger or someone will need to be restrained. I can only see this increasing risk of danger to citizens.
People call the police for, for example, suicidal people all the time. And no, it doesn't always end well, hence the change.