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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#251

Post by chrisseaton »

netcan wrote: post #159
kriro wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calling "most business degrees excepting accounting and finance" a problem just seems wrong and frankly pretty arrogant. I do think too many people take business degrees and think they'll just "become managers" (and there's a high number of "don't know what else to do" type of students) but there are many actually useful things taught in the typical degree programs. I mean thinking of a typical non specialize…

Well... criticising anyone's degree (even though I also have such a degree) is always arrogant. That's the point we're at though. It has become the most popular degree while simultaneously getting worse in quality... starting from a low base. As I said, I have one of these degrees, and have hired and worked with many people with such degrees. First, I agree that the math and (particularly) the statistics classes are…

> Most business degrees (graduate & undergraduate) are not recognised BAs anymore.

Why does it matter if they’re BA or something else? And recognised by who?

And obviously a postgrad business degree is not going to be a BA... because that’s an undergrad degree.

I think if you’re saying a MBA from a reputable school is useless I think you’re being really really silly. I see the opportunities these degrees give you and they are in a most literal sense extremely useful. They also seem academically valuable to me, with fascinating lectures by extremely well qualified people, and visiting amazing institutions.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#252

Post by wuxb »

More or less, the "top" universities have maintained an ecosystem that attracts so many people over the course of their live and makes people believe that's the "road" to a better life. The problem is not about the pandemic, it's about what's in the mind of average people. People start to have doubts. It doesn't really matter what's the decision afterwards. People start to think about the next level things.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#253

Post by jarjoura »

LargeWu wrote: post #56
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

> In reality, they didn't need to save the minimal room and board fees of a state school; they were mostly just cowards.

How dare you place judgement on other people's circumstances. Moving away from your family to immerse yourself in your studies is certainly one way to grow as a person, but far from the only way.

Maybe someone has to take care of a family member and can't realistically do that, even if they wanted to. However, taking classes while also taking care of a family member, is that a coward or someone strong?

Maybe someone already knows the path they want to take in life and they see the cost of room and board as an unnecessary expense they can instead save to buy a condo elsewhere. Is that person a coward for being focused or strong?

Maybe someone needs a familiar support network such as a strong family to thrive academically. Is that person a coward for being self aware or strong?

How many people did you meet your freshman year who you thought in the back of your mind, wow they really should have taken a gap year. All they did was waste money on tuition and room and board while they partied and failed courses. Are all these people strong for making lifelong friendships against their better judgement or cowards?

So many reasons why people chose the path they do, I could keep going on here. I would have thought someone getting a liberal arts education would be open minded to other experiences. It sounds like you judge people who not follow in your footsteps, and for that, how dare you!

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#254

Post by SamBam »

0xffff2 wrote: post #161
totalZero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people use HVAC as a boilerplate example of working-class work. Jobs come from where the booms are. Unless there's an HVAC boom, why would you anticipate a surge in HVAC workers? Not a criticism/denial of your larger point, just an observation about that point specifically.

I've read the GP 3 times now and I can't find any mention of HVAC... Did it get edited or something?

Parent comment says "training like air/vac."

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#255

Post by sumtechguy »

drdeadringer wrote: post #209
ceilingcorner wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trades have been more lucrative than many liberal arts-esque jobs for decades. Awareness isn’t the issue. The issue is social acceptability. Until plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. stop being a part of the undesirable Other to middle and upper middle class Americans, nothing will change. Paying $100,000 for your kid to study underwater basket weaving at Harvard is still socially superior to running a multi-mil…

At the risk of being a Starship Troopers "I'm Doing My Part!" recruitment video, I respect all of the plumbers, seamstresses, tailors, drycleaners, carpenters, &c that I have hired for help. I know my limits of what I can do. I can sew my own buttons, do a shitty hem on something that doesn't matter. Repairing the plumbing on a bathroom sink I did catastrophic damage too is towards my upper limit; I was able to sourc…

My best tool in my toolbox is my checking account!

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#256

Post by massysett »

PAPPPmAc wrote: post #152
LargeWu wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

At most state schools (including the one that employs me) on-campus room and board now costs at least as much as tuition due to years of upward pressure on amenities from [parents of] students and the resulting ill-considered public/private development deals. I agree that the spending time immersed in the university environment is one of the most important parts of the college experience, but you don't have to get ex…

Room and board costing more than tuition is not a new thing and I doubt amenities is the whole reason. I went to a state school over twenty years ago and room and board cost more than tuition. It was hardly amenity-rich: most rooms were doubles with a shared bathroom down the hall, no carpet, old worn furniture, and no air conditioning. The food was cafeteria style where fajita night was a big feature. The rec center was considered glorious but was funded by a separate fee of about a hundred bucks a semester.

I suspect room and board costs what it does compared to tuition simply because putting undergrads in a big lecture just doesn’t cost all that much. In addition, the tuition for resident students gets subsidized, while the room and board generally doesn’t.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#257

Post by 7leafer »

eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

Great, more mindless drones without a wide picture of things in their heads, way to go for the modern slave drivers. Preheating for predefined occupations assigned at birth, the digital caste way.

Ever noticed how the most agenda-aligned comments are always at the top? HN has become the most disgusting indoctrination platform in the whole IT, and the day will come when it'll burn up in colourful flames.

A sea of change, my ass! Better be prepared for the ocean of backlash for all the crap you're being peddling.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#258

Post by heimatau »

xiaolingxiao wrote: post #246
heimatau wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In a few months we are completely re-examining the utility of taking out a student loan that many cannot pay back in their working lifetimes. Actually this has been true for many decades, not just the last 10-20 years. The issue is exasperated due to massive unemployment because of the mismanagement of covid19. There will be no 're-examining' because there is so much bloat that votes. Countless administrators that a…

Could you speak about administrators that vote for their own interests. I always suspected this is the case, have you seen it first hand or is close to it.

> Could you speak about administrators that vote for their own interests.

So, given the rising costs of Health Care and College both situations are good examples of this. The rising 'costs' are more people in administration. This could be blamed on regulation among other issues (greed).

As for voting in their self interests, I live in California now. University of California is the #1 employer in this State. This doesn't happen by chance. It happens due to stakeholders. Many people in this States want an 'easy' and 'stable' job. The easiest way to do this is require more red tape (regulation/'initiatives'/etc), in the name of 'progress' and then now you just created a 'stable and easy' job to make sure certain quotas are reach.

Professors and students lose out due to admin workers are more aggressive on making the government enrich their interests.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#259

Post by jhbadger »

heimatau wrote: post #189
eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

>In a few months we are completely re-examining the utility of taking out a student loan that many cannot pay back in their working lifetimes. Actually this has been true for many decades, not just the last 10-20 years. The issue is exasperated due to massive unemployment because of the mismanagement of covid19. There will be no 're-examining' because there is so much bloat that votes. Countless administrators that a…

Not that many decades. For example, I was an undergraduate in 1988-1992. I never had any student loans nor did my parents pay for my tuition. They made it a point of principle that we pay for our education ourselves by working part time, as they themselves had done. But that just isn't possible today. When I went to (public) university, the tuition was under $2000/semester. These days it is over $10000. Wages have gone up since then, but not 5X.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#260

Post by grecy »

netcan wrote: post #32
eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

> The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries

In what OECD countries do students go into crippling debt for their tertiary education? There are only two that I know of, one of which being the USA.

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