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I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

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Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#121

Post by hyperrail »

pjc50 wrote: post #14
avolcano wrote: post #4

Rather sad the two proposals here are either "giant browser vendors should pay for it" or "independent web developers should pay for it." It's one thing for developers to pay for things that will develop their independent careers, but MDN is a reference as much as it is a learning resource; it's something developers constantly use at their jobs. Their employers , big or small, should be the ones paying for it. Of cou…

By comparison, employers routinely pay for MSDN.

You don't need to buy an MSDN subscription to read or contribute to https://docs.microsoft.com , whose pages are free to read and are increasingly becoming open-source on GitHub.

In fact, Microsoft now calls MSDN subs Visual Studio subscriptions, to emphasize that the main reason to buy one is to get premium VS features and personalized developer support.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#122

Post by projektfu »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #72
dmurray wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's one of the reasons why, when I donate to a charity, I never specify how I want those funds to be used; I recognize that the charity is in a far better position to make that decision than I am. But by choosing a charity, you make that decision. If you donate to MSF you expect your money to be used differently than if you donated to Mozilla or the ASPCA or the Ayn Rand foundation - and you'd probably be a bit un…

> So it's reasonable for someone to want a charity that broadly shares his values. Wanting to fund a nonprofit that produces web documentation, but not longshot startups, is a reasonable value to have. I absolutely agree. However, I think it's one thing to say "I will donate to Goodwill because I think their mission is important and they have a good reputation", and another to say "and when I donate you must used my…

And yet, it's still OK to say, "I would donate to this charity or organization if its executive compensation does not exceed a certain amount, otherwise I don't think my money is being used appropriately."

Also, when people donate lots of money to an organization, either as a personal grant or by bundling a bunch of donations they collect, they quite often do stipulate how it will be spent. If someone wanted to organize a drive for MDN, they would be justified in saying they want the money to appear as additional funds for MDN.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#123

Post by Fauntleroy »

hansjorg wrote: post #111
nwsm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>degenerate activism What's this in reference to, specifically?

It seems that it's become completely normal to dehumanize people amongst people on the US right. It's become so normal that every other thread here will refer to "degenerates" or similar terrible terms for political opponents, and sadly the moderators seem to think this is normal as well. If you're slightly to the left of Hitler and live in the US, you should arm yourself now, before it's too late.

Too late for what, exactly? For the Border Patrol to abuse its 100 mile zone to act as a paramilitary organization? For the DHS to assault US citizens?

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#124

Post by superficialnerd »

jermier wrote: post #90

It would be cool if MDN had a Stack Overflow question-and-answer style format alongside the main offering. Then Mozilla could take advantage of the gamification model where users earn badges and awards for their efforts. Jeff Atwood said it once: `If you put a number next to someone's name, then that person will try everything to increase that number`. Also: it would look good on CVs and would be a good heuristic to…

> If you put a number next to someone's name, then that person will try everything to increase that number

Damn true!

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#125

Post by divbzero »

Should roads be free to drive on? Clean water, primary education, or firefighting be free for public use?

I don’t think there are black or white answers to these questions. There are toll roads and freeways, for-profit but regulated water utilities, “free” education and firefighting funded through taxes. But all of these, like MDN, are public goods [1] where some pooling of resources makes sense. It’s not so much wanting them to be free as it is wanting shared low cost options.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics)

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#126

Post by gvjddbnvdrbv »

MattGaiser wrote: post #65
CarelessExpert wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. Interestingly, this same sentiment is a huge part of why charitable giving runs into problems. A lot of people are willing to give, so long as they get to decide what is done with their funds. Of course, these same people have no i…

It is not a matter of expertise, but a matter of setting priorities and valuing projects. I value MDN and Firefox. I am fine with every other aspect of Mozilla dying to save those two. How do I donate my dollar with that goal in mind? As my goals are not really aligned with Mozilla as a whole.

Thunderbird is pretty useful as well. Actually I would pay for Thunderbird if I was asked to.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#127

Post by Fauntleroy »

tdeck wrote: post #117
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"degenerate activism" -- really? You could have just stopped with the other two.

It's odd to see people unselfconsciously use the term "degenerate" these days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

I guess we're far enough away from WWII for people to actually start romanticizing Nazis. Guess there's always a cutoff point for that kind of thing, but I thought it'd be at least 100 years.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#128

Post by luckylion »

bloat wrote: post #24
gambler wrote: post #6

>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…

Do you have these standards with all companies you pay for services? Seems like it might limit you somewhat...

Don't you? If e.g. Verizon spent plenty of money lobbying for murdering Kittens and beating puppies, would you choose to spend your money with Verizon instead of a competitor? Why, the quality of their product isn't impacted by their lobbying campaigns.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#129

Post by wolco »

Goronmon wrote: post #91
MattGaiser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a matter of expertise, but a matter of setting priorities and valuing projects. I value MDN and Firefox. I am fine with every other aspect of Mozilla dying to save those two. How do I donate my dollar with that goal in mind? As my goals are not really aligned with Mozilla as a whole.

How do I donate my dollar with that goal in mind? As my goals are not really aligned with Mozilla as a whole. Seems like you want control over the project, not to just be donating? At that point it appears one of your main solution would be to start a project like MDN that you can have such control over.

You have a responsibility to safeguard your donation to further your personal charity goals.

In this day and age charities can't expect blank cheque donations without specific goals and targets they are personally aligned to.

The project gives up some control when they accept donations.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#130

Post by brendoelfrendo »

MattGaiser wrote: post #102
Goronmon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I donate my dollar with that goal in mind? As my goals are not really aligned with Mozilla as a whole. Seems like you want control over the project, not to just be donating? At that point it appears one of your main solution would be to start a project like MDN that you can have such control over.

I don't require that level of control. I just want something similar to a restricted university donation fund. Another faculty at my alma mater had a mega donation a few years ago that was restricted to paying for new research chairs in business. They couldn't use it for anything in other faculties. They couldn't reallocate it to recruiting. I want something like that.

Well, that's your answer then: promise a sufficiently life-changing donation for Mozilla such that they're willing to negotiate with you.
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