I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
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I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
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Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#2> Cult of the free
This is poorly chosen language as it doesn't distinguish between freedom versus monetization.
I think most users of free software know it's 'free as in freedom' and they are not being duped.
I think most users of free services are duped into thinking it is actually free and are unaware their data is being sold and monetized and are paying for the service with their data. Lately more people are waking up to that fact though. I don't mean services like MDN, just things like Facebook, Google etc
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#3> Cult of the free This is poorly chosen language as it doesn't distinguish between freedom versus monetization. I think most users of free software know it's 'free as in freedom' and they are not being duped. I think most users of free services are duped into thinking it is actually free and are unaware their data is being sold and monetized and are paying for the service with their data. Lately more people are waki…
We just need more hosted wikis where things are fulfilled by torrent or donation to a centralized source
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#4Rather sad the two proposals here are either "giant browser vendors should pay for it" or "independent web developers should pay for it." It's one thing for developers to pay for things that will develop their independent careers, but MDN is a reference as much as it is a learning resource; it's something developers constantly use at their jobs. Their employers, big or small, should be the ones paying for it.
Of course, we all know that asking startups to actually fund open source (whether code, documentation, or learning resources) is like pulling teeth. I'd say maybe the collapse of some larger open source project(s) could convince companies to start actually giving a shit about whether or not the maintainers of the technology their entire businesses rely on have enough money to continue developing said technology, but it's more likely the companies would just say "well, let's put 10 engineers on this problem for a month to replace this dead open source technology with something new and shiny" and not recognize how much more they've had to spend. Or, y'know, they'll go with paid support of a Microsoft product or something.
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#5In my head the question is: can a wikipedia-style MDN exist? If the answer is yes than I think op opinion is only on one type of model of organizing and funding a documentation site.
Will a wikipedia-style MDN be successful if there are (in addition of volunteers) paid writers who cover the majority of the work need? Maybe not. Maybe that's what the existing MDN proves.
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#6>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat?
Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups.
>Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its successor.
Sounds like a decent idea, but a Patreon-style funding with different tiers will probably yield even better results.
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#7>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…
If it were to be obeyed, a slider like the Humble Bundle where the allocation to the charity, game provider, and HB are manipulatable would be fantastic.
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#8Rather sad the two proposals here are either "giant browser vendors should pay for it" or "independent web developers should pay for it." It's one thing for developers to pay for things that will develop their independent careers, but MDN is a reference as much as it is a learning resource; it's something developers constantly use at their jobs. Their employers , big or small, should be the ones paying for it. Of cou…
>MDN is a reference as much as it is a learning resource..
>Their employers, big or small, should be the ones paying for it.
Your argument is counter intuitive, if it is truly a reference, then surely the developers themselves should pay for it.
A company hires a developer with the expectation that they know their field (including the standards etc.). It is the developers' own concern if they (understandably) need a reference to help them execute what they were hired for.
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#9In my head the question is: can a wikipedia-style MDN exist? If the answer is yes than I think op opinion is only on one type of model of organizing and funding a documentation site. Will a wikipedia-style MDN be successful if there are (in addition of volunteers) paid writers who cover the majority of the work need? Maybe not. Maybe that's what the existing MDN proves.
If we go wiki style, can we bootstrap with MDN? Is there a download with an acceptable license that could be used? I don't know if we'd get traction to bootstrap from nothing...
EDIT: So I've found answers to my content questions at [1] - does the community have the appetite for an alternate site?
1 - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/MDN/About#Using_MDN...
Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action
#10Rather sad the two proposals here are either "giant browser vendors should pay for it" or "independent web developers should pay for it." It's one thing for developers to pay for things that will develop their independent careers, but MDN is a reference as much as it is a learning resource; it's something developers constantly use at their jobs. Their employers , big or small, should be the ones paying for it. Of cou…
I think making employers pay for it can cause the cost to be too high. And still there'd be thousands of small-medium companies, schools, and universities who won't buy the subscription - the majority of the population won't have access to it.
I believe it HAS to be kept free for the general public, no matter what.