Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA Owns Everything (2015)

blog.thinkst.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 265 posts

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#251

Post by panny »

monocasa wrote: post #79
panny wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong, but with such confidence! Here is a documented ARM booting sequence with fully free firmware, https://stikonas.eu/wordpress/2019/09/15/blobless-boot-with-...

That 32k BootROM isn't free in your example. SoCs will also have "pre-boot" code that runs before that: > However, even one of their most ardent open-source advocates pushed back quite hard when I suggested they should share their pre-boot code. By pre-boot code, I’m not talking about the little ROM blob that gets run after reset to set up your peripherals so you can pull your bootloader from SD card or SSD. That par…

>That 32k BootROM isn't free in your example.

It's a ROM. Read only.

https://www.fsf.org/news/freebios.html

"The BIOS was impossible to replace because it was stored in ROM: the only way to to put in a different BIOS was by replacing part of the hardware. In effect, the BIOS was itself hardware--and therefore didn't really count as software. It was like the program that (we can suppose) exists in the computer that (we can suppose) runs your watch or your microwave oven: since you can't install software on it, it may as well be circuits, not a computer at all."

Edit: >ROMs can still be backdoored, which is the point of this discussion.

You said it wasn't free, and when proven wrong, you moved the goalpost. Since I'm a wrongthinker who can only post once every hour or two on this site, I'm done discussing this with you. If you want to try to convince people that a 32K ROM is the same as IntelME, then you're not worth my time anyway.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#252

Post by monocasa »

panny wrote: post #251
monocasa wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 32k BootROM isn't free in your example. SoCs will also have "pre-boot" code that runs before that: > However, even one of their most ardent open-source advocates pushed back quite hard when I suggested they should share their pre-boot code. By pre-boot code, I’m not talking about the little ROM blob that gets run after reset to set up your peripherals so you can pull your bootloader from SD card or SSD. That par…

>That 32k BootROM isn't free in your example. It's a ROM. Read only. https://www.fsf.org/news/freebios.html "The BIOS was impossible to replace because it was stored in ROM: the only way to to put in a different BIOS was by replacing part of the hardware. In effect, the BIOS was itself hardware--and therefore didn't really count as software. It was like the program that (we can suppose) exists in the computer that (w…

ROMs can still be backdoored, which is the point of this discussion.

Since we're editing: Free has many definitions. The FSF's on that one page doesn't take into account backdoored software; they would absolutely agree that backdoored ROMs aren't free. It removes user ownership over their computation. It's not "moving the goalposts" to point this out, especially when the entire point of the discussion is around backdoored software.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#253

Post by lambdatronics »

stephen_g wrote: post #85
agumonkey wrote: post #67

One thing I'm curious is what's the source of energy behind all this. NSA failed to stop many important accidents (9/11, covid) .. Is it a survival bias and they're still keeping people safe without saying it or is it some finance/intelligence blackhole spinning due to some political quicksand ?

From my reading of the history of these kind of organisations, I think what’s happening is twofold - firstly, that they’re often looking at the wrong people/groups, and secondly, just so much intelligence they have just ends up being wrong or misleading. Their mission has become “collect it all”, but I think they (and a lot of commentators and even everyday people) can’t really imagine what a large percentage of inte…

> watching the wrong people

I wonder ... it seems like there might be a certain personality profile that is inclined to a security career -- might be correlated.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#254

Post by raxxorrax »

ciarannolan wrote: post #162
raxxorrax wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still amazed how many people believed the Russian election manipulation story without any evidence. Especially large portions of the press should stand ashamed in a really, really dark corner. In hindsight I believe the people selling penis enlargement were correct about the reasoning abilities of humanity...

I am still amazed how many people go around saying that there isn't "any evidence" that Russia actively interfered in the 2016 US election. We both have access to Wikipedia, right? Or is all that Fake News too?

Sadly yes, Wikipedia is not good source on information like this anymore. It always was criticized that info on there wasn't sufficient evidence and that you had to get secondary sources. I think Wikipedia is a good source on most issues, but this topic is certainly not part of that.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#255

Post by raxxorrax »

meroes wrote: post #173
raxxorrax wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still amazed how many people believed the Russian election manipulation story without any evidence. Especially large portions of the press should stand ashamed in a really, really dark corner. In hindsight I believe the people selling penis enlargement were correct about the reasoning abilities of humanity...

Didn't the Senate, House Committees, nearly every US intelligence agency, and independent researchers all say Russia actively interfered and wanted Trump to win? Where are you still finding the one source espousing this nonsense?

There is actually evidence that Putin wanted Hillary because she is a "softer" partner, and in contrast to the conspiracy this is evidenced in written words. That is actually an argument to vote for her, but don't let that stop you.

edit: In case you actually do try to research it, that info was kept hidden by Brennan to the objection of CIA analysts.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#256

Post by saagarjha »

BickNowstrom wrote: post #170
jacquesm wrote: post #104

The difference between a theory, a conspiracy theory and the truth are best described by varying levels of evidence. A theory is not currently accepted as the truth, but it might be the truth. A conspiracy theory is something that has been proven to be untrue, but people still believe it and pass it on. The truth is the internally consistent and fact supported state of the world as it was and as it is. There were man…

Snowden was even willing to burn his future career, as he took a job with Booz Allen Hamilton with the sole purpose of leaking as much information as he could get his hands on. As an admin at BAH he was using his colleagues' passwords for discovery. He was willing to burn their careers to hack access to more leaks. So much leaks that he could not vet these all. This was no Ellsberg tasked with copying some confidenti…

> instead of making his point with his own whistleblower findings, he went to journalists and handed them over all the documents

This is literally part of what whistleblowers do.

> instead of facing justice (and there are whistleblower protections for doing the right thing)

Whistleblower protections that didn’t really exist?

> causing a permanent PR disaster for US intelligence

One which they got for callously breaking the law?

> The reason Snowden's leaks got a lot of attention is that they "proved" (we never got confirmation that they were real)

What kind of confirmation do you want? You can’t just put things in quotes and hope to weaken them.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#257

Post by saagarjha »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #217
jacquesm wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having the legal right to do something does not count as evidence that it didn't happen.

Since there isn't any evidence that it did happen, the fact that it is illegal is a pretty good reason to believe that it didn't happen. When you consider that Snowden released a trove of internal documents not vetted by the secret keepers, and none of them show that it did happen (while many of those documents cite the law for why it should not happen), that provides further circumstantial evidence that it didn't ha…

> the fact that it is illegal is a pretty good reason to believe that it didn't happen

And yet I believe crime exists regardless of its legality.

> Snowden released a trove of internal documents not vetted by the secret keepers

Why on earth should the secret keepers be the ones to vet documents about themselves when they are being whistleblown on?

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#258

Post by nix23 »

president wrote: post #178
nix23 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China are hacking the US left and right Can you proof that or is that maybe something the CIA or the Pentagon would say?

For one, they have been hacking biomedical companies to steal COVID-19 research and a few were caught red-handed [1]. Also, see Equifax indictments. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53493028

That is not left and right, and look at that interesting detail from you article:

Why is China accused of supporting them?

Prosecutors said the men at times acted in their own self-interest - including one occasion when they demanded a ransom from a company in exchange for not releasing its private information - but at other times "were stealing information of obvious interest" to the Chinese government.

According to the indictment, the hackers "worked with, were assisted by, and operated with the acquiescence of" the MSS.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#259

Post by ciarannolan »

raxxorrax wrote: post #254
ciarannolan wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still amazed how many people go around saying that there isn't "any evidence" that Russia actively interfered in the 2016 US election. We both have access to Wikipedia, right? Or is all that Fake News too?

Sadly yes, Wikipedia is not good source on information like this anymore. It always was criticized that info on there wasn't sufficient evidence and that you had to get secondary sources. I think Wikipedia is a good source on most issues, but this topic is certainly not part of that.

The wiki on this topic cites 551 sources. I guess they're all fake too?

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#260

Post by justanotheranon »

ciarannolan wrote: post #234
justanotheranon wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/19/the-nsa-was-hacked-snowd... there is proof that NSA has been mass hacking WiFi since at least 2005. that batch of Snowden leaks came out one week after the Shadowbroker's first leak. NSA programs SECONDDATE and BADDECISION were used to mass hack into WiFi routers in Iraq in 2005-2007. note the slides say NSA breached the WiFi routers of EVERY INTERNET CAFE IN IRAQ. that is the Coll…

Interesting article, but I think you're way over drawing your conclusions. > how much would you bet that NSA is NOT bulk hacking WiFi routers of ENTIRE US CITIES FROM THE AIR? I would bet very good money that they are not doing this. If SECONDDATE has been around since 2005, and they are bulk installing it on millions of routers in the US, where are the people coming out saying "I found some NSA shit on my router"? I…

are you so sure about that?

https://m.startribune.com/mystery-surveillance-plane-that-ci...

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/06/02/secret-aerial-fbi-...

since at least 2014, the FBI has a secret air force of over 100 planes that fly constant circles over the biggest US cities.

what do you think FBI is doing? joy riding?

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/03/new-foia-documents-con...

those FBI planes are equipped with DRTBOX's--cell site simulators and wifi interception sensors.

in the TAO ANT Catalogue leaked by Snowden, it shows NSA SECONDDATE is manufactured by Harris.

Harris also makes DRTBOX, and Stingray.

wanna bet FBI is using DRTBOX in exactly the same way NSA used it in Iraq? wanna bet NSA is actually helping FBI run this little domestic program?

why would NSA and FBI surveill all US cities from the sky? because you dont need a warrant or even a subpoena. "reading the air" is free--it's public space with no expectation of privacy. and radio signals you emit through your phone or wifi router are also public space.

but what is FBI and NSA's endgame to run a real-time monitoring program over US cities?

back in 2004-2008 in Iraq, the Pentagon deployed something called GORGON STARE. it stiched together the video feeds from all drones and jets and satellites into a composite video watching entire cities.

https://longreads.com/2019/06/21/nothing-kept-me-up-at-night...

Gorgon Stare has come home to roost.

Post reply on HN