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NSA Owns Everything (2015)

blog.thinkst.com

221–230 of 265 posts

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#221
post #32

The hiding of the malicious code in arm processors of ssds and in the BIOS seem like this is mainly targeted at people running their own hardware. Does this mean running in a public cloud might actually be more secure? Or do we just have to assume that the NSA has their hardware in place in any cloud provider and that there actually is no security possible in the cloud?

> Does this mean running in a public cloud might actually be more secure?

No, because cloud providers are one subpeona, court order or warrant away from surveillance and exfiltration of your data without your knowledge.

If the DHS deems you a threat, then all proceedings can happen through secret courts and you'll be none the wiser to it happening, and you'll get a gag order on top of it.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#222

One thing I'm curious is what's the source of energy behind all this. NSA failed to stop many important accidents (9/11, covid) .. Is it a survival bias and they're still keeping people safe without saying it or is it some finance/intelligence blackhole spinning due to some political quicksand ?

Both 9/11 and covid are a case of human error (the latter more incompetence and inaction though); at 9/11 they HAD all the information they needed, where the terrorists had been, their communications, etc (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks#FBI ), but they apparently didn't connect the dots, failed to act, failed to not grant them entry into the country, etc. Mind you, a lot of these projects are…

Also in the 9/11 commission report the one hijacker, Zacarias Moussaoui was under investigation by the FBI in Minnesota and their FISA warrant was denied. The dispute was supposedly also over a "lack of communication/cooperation" between the FBI and CIA in active investigations.

Coleen Rowley was the whistle-blower on this event, and testified to congress. Everything on the laptop had the evidence of the 9/11 attacks, but was blocked by the FISA court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleen_Rowley

Ironically great investigators with 2001 tech could have prevented the 9/11 attacks. Appallingly then the FISA court approved the whole sale surveillance of any Verizon customer. The wholesale Verizon order was the 1st and one of the biggest important information leaks from the Snowden documents.

A court that was set up to protect the civil liberties of Americans during the abuses of the 1960's-1970's failed in the protection of the largest terrorist attack in US history, but was then used to circumvent the civil liberties and privacy rights of a massive numbers of American citizens.

Then the government used the pretext of 9/11 to create these technologies by for the NSA to surveil the large majority of its own citizens, when all that was needed was 1 FISA warrant approval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Drake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_(intelligence_o...

It's appalling, with the loss of our rights and the digital world now being used to further deteriorate these rights when it can be used in such better and positive ways.

Also a 20+ year war, Trillions of dollars, and millions of deaths could have prevented from not blocking this warrant. While right now, with COVID, we could use Trillions of dollars to help keep US citizens safe and use it for small business support during these tough times.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#223
Takeaways:

1) If the NSA interacts with you, you are a victim. It's possible there are no meaningful exceptions to that.

2) The NSA interacts with Americans (not suspected of a crime) as if we were a hostile foreign actor.

3) It is both sound and safe to presume that the IC community has lost it's way. This is true during every administration. It may be somewhat less true, for a time, after a bit of IC wrongdoing is outed.

4) IC chiefs lie to the public to the point where it's unclear if they ever tell a meaningful truth.

5) The National Security portion of NSA's title implies that the interests served by the agency are US Gov's but not the public's.

6) The NSA does not even pretend to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies [to the Constitution], foreign and domestic; or to bear true faith and allegiance to the same [Constitution].

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#224
post #5

The basic premise is false. > "Why did we never see it coming?" Many people saw it coming. I was warning about the possibility of dragnet surveillance, the existence of ECHELON, the use of the American security apparatus to steal trade secrets, the surveillance of non-American politicians, et al... For many, many years before Snowden. And I'm just some rando on the internet who follows the mainstream news! We were ca…

Sebastian Haffner warned of it as early as 1940. Not of the internet itself of course, but still. Note the bit about a microphone in every house.

> Yet another circumstance must be mentioned which proves favorable for the Nazis and their immensely powerful apparatus of oppression: the development of modern technology gives the rulers, as has long been insufficiently understood, an advantage over the ruled. The more effective the weapons become and the less you can protect yourself against them, the more the armed is superior to the unarmed. The Bastille could not be successfully stormed in the age of airplanes and tear gas. Rifles equipped with rifles have no chance against motorized police forces; it makes no sense to build barricades against a government that has tanks. And in the event of a revolution, it is not only weapons development that favors those in power, the state over the individual: modern technical development and the associated sophisticated organization work in the same direction. Traffic has led to the countries becoming small and easy to monitor. How many hiding places there were in a country a hundred years ago! At that time, every power hit natural barriers! Today there is no loophole and no hideout for the rebel anymore. Even the thoughts that are able to penetrate the walls have become "controllable" because they are tied to the mass distribution of news, to radio, film and the press. How long will it take before every house has its own microphone and every private word, like every telephone call today, can be heard? The ant state is at hand. It may not be a coincidence that states like Germany and Russia have elevated technology to the status of a religion. Conversely, this development of modern technology makes the preservation of freedom a human task that is more urgent than ever.

-- Sebastian Haffner "Germany: Jekyll & Hyde (1939 - Deutschland von innen betrachtet)"

The above is my crappy translation because I don't have the English original (!). Apologies to Haffner as author and anyone who enjoys reading good English, but I think the content speaks for itself.

It's not just so-called conspiracy theorists who warned us, but also people in the midst of our society, near the zenith of human achievement. Our best and brightest. And we paid a LOT of lip service to respecting a LOT of people who warned us, while trampling what they held up as most important underfoot. We just wanted their gimmicks, their clever oneliners, the stuff we could kill time with.

> Now the police dreams that one look at the gigantic map on the office wall should suffice at any given moment to establish who is related to whom and in what degree of intimacy; and, theoretically, this dream is not unrealizable although its technical execution is bound to be somewhat difficult. If this map really did exist, not even memory would stand in the way of the totalitarian claim to domination; such a map might make it possible to obliterate people without any traces, as if they had never existed at all.

-- Hannah Arendt, "The Origins of Totalitarianism"

She wasn't the type to get excited and pushy, about anything. And maybe she wasn't aware of how she hit bulls eye when she wrote that. But here we are, and we know she did.

> If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?

-- George Orwell

What if society became completely digital? What if people completely loose the ability to remember things, and look up their own lifes and history in the data stores? I've seen dozens, countless comments on HN that seem to be longing for something like that, of course while completely ignoring the implications, the destruction of humans and human society that would entail.

> Meanwhile, in the course of this "Terrorist Generation" campaign, for Obama to claim, "you know, I'm really worried about terrorists, so I have to to read -- well, they claim they don't read it -- I have to get information about your email, where you are, who you're talking to, what you have on Facebook; I've gotta put that on my big database"... actually, we're moving into a world which was described, pretty accurately I think, by one of the founders of Google... I don't know if you followed the stories about Google Glass? Well, Google has some new, ridiculous thing, they're marketing glasses which have a small computer on them. So you can be on the internet 24 hours a day, just what you want. It's a way of destroying people, but quite apart from that, this little device has a camera, and presumably, if it doesn't already it will soon have a recorder, which means that everything that's going on around you, goes up on the internet. Some reporter asked Erich Schmidt, didn't he think this was an invasion of privacy, and his answer was exactly right, comes right out of the Obama administration, he said: "If you're doing anything that you don't want to be on the internet, you shouldn't be doing it." This is a dream that Orwell couldn't have concocted. We're moving into it, and it's not the only case. if you read the technical journals, there's more stuff coming along. So, for example, right now there are corporations that are concerned about using computers with components made in China, because it's technically possible to build into the hardware devices which will record what the computer is doing and send it to those bad guys. well, the articles don't point out that if the Chinese can do it, we can do it better, and probably are, so it may end up in Obama's database the next time you hit the computer.

-- Noam Chomsky

That was located at http://grittv.org/?video=noam-chomsky-on-secret-trade-deals-... but that site is dead and directs somewhere else. Don't click. I transcribed it 7 years ago, I can't prove that, but if seriously challenged I would go try looking for another source.

My point is, that's not some old man who doesn't understand technology. He understands it better than the people who are used to make it. And did you catch what he called Google Glass? "a way of destroying people" That's not exaggeration, that's cutting right to the heart of the matter.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#225
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden docs have been available for years. ShadowBrokers. Just this week a 20GB dump of private Intel source was dumped with backdoors included. It is beyond a reasonable doubt that x86 hardware has NSA backdoors in it. You're now sitting on a time bomb. Remember when the NSA tools were dumped with their secret Windows exploits? WannaCry? North Korea picked that up and launched ransomware attacks. That's the sort of…

> Just this week a 20GB dump of private Intel source was dumped with backdoors included. > That's the sort of thing that's going to happen again with the newly published Intel backdoors. This is not even remotely true. You have to read more than just the headlines. > Anyone on WiFi AC or up are backdoored right now by NSA. All of them are compromised, no doubt in my mind. All the LTE. All the x86 hardware on the mark…

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/19/the-nsa-was-hacked-snowd...

there is proof that NSA has been mass hacking WiFi since at least 2005. that batch of Snowden leaks came out one week after the Shadowbroker's first leak.

NSA programs SECONDDATE and BADDECISION were used to mass hack into WiFi routers in Iraq in 2005-2007. note the slides say NSA breached the WiFi routers of EVERY INTERNET CAFE IN IRAQ. that is the Collect-It-All scale we expect from NSA.

also note, NSA did this FROM THE SKY! SECONDDATE is a sensor installed in Cessna and low flying planes. NSA flew over every WiFi hotspot of every Internet cafe in Iraq and deployed the BADDECISION exploit to install implants on the WiFi routers to then mass surveil everyone.

no futher leaks about BADDECISION have come out. we dont know if it is a protocol attack or crypto exploit. we dont know if WiFi is still vulnerable to BADDECISION.

how much do you want to bet that NSA only used SECONDDATE and BADDECISION in Iraq and NOT back here at home in America?

how much would you bet that NSA is NOT bulk hacking WiFi routers of ENTIRE US CITIES FROM THE AIR?

consider how much cheaper and easier that would be now in 2020 compared to 2005?

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#226
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The other emphasized question, while less sexy and less quotable, is a much more accurate representation of the question TFA tries to answer: > If the NSA was owning everything in sight (and by all accounts they have) then how is it that nobody ever spotted them? It’s sad that people routinely find the first disagreeable thing in any submission then derail the whole discussion based on an out-of-context misr…

> It’s sad that people routinely find the first disagreeable thing in any submission then derail the whole discussion based on an out-of-context misrepresentation of that. It reminds me of that "CIA manual" that floats around about how to derail conversations and sew doubt when infuriating an organization (can't find link). About doing things like bringing up irrelevant information, highlighting less meaningful thing…

I think you're talking about "The Gentleman's Guide to Forum Spies[0]" Which for some reason people seem to believe is actually a CIA/Fed document leaked to pastebin (and somehow left there) despite having clearly being written for and within the imageboard community.

Most of what's listed as "disinfo agent" tactics there are the general fallacious and bad faith tactics that go on in almost any forum under heated discourse.

[0]https://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#227
post #5

The basic premise is false. > "Why did we never see it coming?" Many people saw it coming. I was warning about the possibility of dragnet surveillance, the existence of ECHELON, the use of the American security apparatus to steal trade secrets, the surveillance of non-American politicians, et al... For many, many years before Snowden. And I'm just some rando on the internet who follows the mainstream news! We were ca…

Not sure if this helps, but Thinkst is a South African company that provides "security services".

Maybe they mean that most security providers didn't see it coming. Some people would think that the NSA are part of the set of security providers and hence, in a way, it's not that you don't see something coming, it's simply that you don't see them as the aggressor.

If you change from the topic of "computer security" to "nuclear weapons" then perhaps you can see how intelligence gathering, obfuscation and subterfuge is perhaps not an inherently offensive thing. For nuclear weapons, I think the only objective is to prevent nuclear explosions. Some people think the US's role is to stop nuclear war; some people think the US is part of the problem.

My personal take on the topic is that Snowden's main role was to challenge the idea that the NSA is keeping the peace.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#228
post #8
post #5

The basic premise is false. > "Why did we never see it coming?" Many people saw it coming. I was warning about the possibility of dragnet surveillance, the existence of ECHELON, the use of the American security apparatus to steal trade secrets, the surveillance of non-American politicians, et al... For many, many years before Snowden. And I'm just some rando on the internet who follows the mainstream news! We were ca…

There were others before snowden, like: James bamford https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6600_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201412281... What snowden did was provide independently verifiable content and details of their activities. His leaks were outdates by half a decade by the time they were public too. Everyone sort of accepted the IC will do shady stuff to stop terrorists after 9/11 because "american lives" so it was a solid conspi…

NSA surveillance was a joke in the Simpsons Movie in 2007.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVTH3_Bf-I

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#229
post #75

Hey, does anybody have that documents from Spiegel? I clicked the link but it says not found. Probably it is from 5 years ago so they take down the pdf documents.

that sucks that link rot is slowly erasing the news reports of Snowden's leaks. how are younger people supposed to defend themselves if the past is erased?

there are 2 sites which archive the complete Snowden leaks:

https://search.edwardsnowden.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=spi...

https://snowdenarchive.cjfe.org/greenstone/cgi-bin/library.c...

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#230
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s sad that people routinely find the first disagreeable thing in any submission then derail the whole discussion based on an out-of-context misrepresentation of that. It reminds me of that "CIA manual" that floats around about how to derail conversations and sew doubt when infuriating an organization (can't find link). About doing things like bringing up irrelevant information, highlighting less meaningful thing…

I think you're talking about "The Gentleman's Guide to Forum Spies[0]" Which for some reason people seem to believe is actually a CIA/Fed document leaked to pastebin (and somehow left there) despite having clearly being written for and within the imageboard community. Most of what's listed as "disinfo agent" tactics there are the general fallacious and bad faith tactics that go on in almost any forum under heated dis…

This is pretty similar, though the specific one I am thinking of is an image of a "scanned document" and seems to be more focused around workplace. But this is similar enough that it gave me better search terms to find what I was thinking of[0]. I'm not really convinced that this is a legitimate CIA or FBI document but the post I found it under claims it is a "1940s CIA memo on how to sow dysfunction in an infiltrated organization" and I've seen it many times floating around with similar titles.

But yeah, I fully agree that this is essentially about bad faith tactics. My new strategy to dealing with this is to call these people out on their bad faith rather than engaging in the misdirection that they are creating. At least in my experience it seems to push these conversations down from the top spot (but that may be a selection bias).

[0] https://i.redd.it/ecjzmknuz6g51.jpg

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