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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

stanforddaily.com

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#91

Post by nimaco »

acdha wrote: post #66
anonunivgrad wrote: post #22

Let the college kids get sick. They are extremely unlikely to have any serious effects from covid. At least on a college campus they won’t infect older family members. Herd immunity on campus would be reached very quickly. The few with serious preexisting conditions can stay home until that happens. The level of fear is frankly ridiculous. People get sick and people die. One day, we will all die. That is the human co…

They are relatively unlikely to _die_ from COVID-19 (and please do not repeat the false claim that these are only “people already on the cusp of death” - the average victim is losing at least a decade of life based on actuarial data) but we know that there are a much greater percentage of people who will experience significant health problems, potentially with life-long impacts. Similarly, not everyone on or near cam…

I always hear "much greater percentage" type language when referring to long-term effects of COVID-19. Is there an actual number associated with this? Or is it more so guesswork

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#92

Post by netcan »

totalZero wrote: post #75
ceilingcorner wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trades have been more lucrative than many liberal arts-esque jobs for decades. Awareness isn’t the issue. The issue is social acceptability. Until plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. stop being a part of the undesirable Other to middle and upper middle class Americans, nothing will change. Paying $100,000 for your kid to study underwater basket weaving at Harvard is still socially superior to running a multi-mil…

Any parent who thinks that way is a moron. Educated uselessness is to the detriment of the kid. If you want to be happy and healthy in America, you must have a way to make money. (Or your parents must give you so much money that you're set for life.)

I would say that any parent who outright rejects this logic is a moron too, probably moreso.

The idea that "social desirability" does not reflect actually valuable stuff is foolish. Class exists in some form in every society. People are always hyper-aware of class issues, and it has always been a primary part of the college/career decision process.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#93

Post by non-entity »

eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

> since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree.

This is the unfortunate part to me. I see a large amount of "not minimum wage, but not that great either" jobs require bachelors that the average person could probably do with a HS education, or jobs wanting advanced professional degrees that are paying pennies and probably don't require much more skills than from a bachelors or even associates programs.

And then there's a number of fields where highly skilled (and proven) individuals can't get the better job because they don't have the right degree.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#94

Post by throwaway0a5e »

tyingq wrote: post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

>Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

Follow the money.

The colleges are getting paid regardless. The local landlords, businesses, etc. that usually get to skim easy money off college students don't. The colleges have to walk the line between screwing the students by giving them all covid (bad press -> less money) and pissing off the locals, who will just use their voting power to use the local government to take money (less favorable regulator environment -> less money) from the colleges if the colleges don't let them skim enough gravy.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#95

Post by netcan »

neltnerb wrote: post #84
totalZero wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any parent who thinks that way is a moron. Educated uselessness is to the detriment of the kid. If you want to be happy and healthy in America, you must have a way to make money. (Or your parents must give you so much money that you're set for life.)

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but having gone to a similar university I suspect that the underwater basketweaving degree from Harvard will come with lucrative enough connections to make up for the lack of actual skills. Remember, success is way more than half luck. Going to Harvard makes your luck much better. That Harvard Rolodex will get you a job even if your degree barely certifies that you have a pulse.

Exactly. People are not extremely attentive to social status & class-adjacent stuff out of foolishness. This stuff has always been extremely important to everything job/money related.

Human society, and the economy are not rational. Assuming that they are is foolish.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#96

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

matz1 wrote: post #83
pjc50 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are substantial (but still very unclear and lacking in stats) reports of long term health conditions among even young people after covid. Besides, by your argument, why should we even have bothered eradicating polio?

Yes of course there will be, any diseases could cause long term health conditions in some of population. Flu too can cause long term damage too. But does it justify lockdown ? closing down school ? No. Especially when its still unclear and lacking in stats. >why should we even have bothered eradicating polio? Because it doesn't require locking down significant part of the population...

I remain skeptical of lockdowns, but it was very common to close down schools in areas where polio was spreading.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#97

Post by kolbe »

chrisseaton wrote: post #53
elliekelly wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see programming as a trade? Do you not see accounting as a trade? Nursing? Medicine? Law? Pharmacology? I would consider all of those “trades.” The non-trade courses of study aren’t particularly popular with college students anymore. I don’t know many people with degrees in english or latin or history or philosophy. And the few that I do always planned to go to trade school (law school) so their undergrad…

> I would consider all of those “trades.” Well good luck communicating with other people because is not how anyone else anywhere uses the word ‘trade’. They’re not ‘trades’ they’re ‘professions’. And I would guess you already know this and you’re trying to be contrary rather than you’re genuinely misunderstanding a basic word.

The distinction is purely a classist one. But functionally speaking, going to nursing school (a trade school) and going to medical school (a professional school) are the same concept, but with one side rebranding themselves as to not be associated with the lower class variant of their work.

You’re right there is a legitimate distinction, but maybe we should stop. It is 2020 and thinking you’re “better” than other people for relatively arbitrary reasons is passé.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#98

Post by pjc50 »

eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

Certainly in the UK, the system went in the other direction: all the "polytechnic" technical colleges training people in practical skills got uprated to "universities" years ago, and the big Blairite expansion of universities was similarly not focused on "trades".

Why? Class. Having a degree and having been to university is such a pre-requisite to being middle class here, far more so than money.

It is also a common problem that certain influential jobs preferentially recruit from certain schools; so people apply to Stanford as a prerequisite for Google just as they apply to École Nationale d'Administration if they want to be part of the French government.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#99

Post by celnardur »

I feel like I can offer a unique perspective on this because I go to Notre Dame and we are just finishing the first week of classes with everyone back on campus. It's gone alright so far. All the cases so far have been traced back to off campus bars or parties. However, I expect it to get worse soon as cases start spreading on campus. If you want to see how Notre Dame is doing with cases and testing we have a dashboard here: https://here.nd.edu/our-approach/dashboard/

I really hope we can make this work because, as an electrical engineer, most of my classes can't be moved online.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#100

Post by jnwatson »

tyingq wrote: post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

"Forcing". There's no one forcing anybody to go to college. This would be a fine time to take a gap year.
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