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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

stanforddaily.com

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#81

Post by bob33212 »

chongli wrote: post #45
tyingq wrote: post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. This is the whole reason schools want students back. They’re desperate to recover some of this cash flow. They have huge budgets and vast numbers of administrative staff to pay. Without the revenue from residence leases and meal plans, they’re in real trouble.

The value offered by colleges is not just an education. It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ). There is virtually no demand for online only classes above a 5k/year price point.

There is a similar situation with private schools. Some of the demand comes from the fact that it is also a babysitting service, forced social group, networking opportunity for parents.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#82

Post by owenmarshall »

chongli wrote: post #57
watwut wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From all these, only mean plans money go to university? If they are signing leases, it suggests they live outside of university.

Lots of universities own residence buildings on and around campus. Students sign leases with the university directly.

Some private universities go as far as mandating undergraduates live in campus housing for up to three years.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#83

Post by matz1 »

pjc50 wrote: post #74
anonunivgrad wrote: post #22

Let the college kids get sick. They are extremely unlikely to have any serious effects from covid. At least on a college campus they won’t infect older family members. Herd immunity on campus would be reached very quickly. The few with serious preexisting conditions can stay home until that happens. The level of fear is frankly ridiculous. People get sick and people die. One day, we will all die. That is the human co…

There are substantial (but still very unclear and lacking in stats) reports of long term health conditions among even young people after covid. Besides, by your argument, why should we even have bothered eradicating polio?

Yes of course there will be, any diseases could cause long term health conditions in some of population. Flu too can cause long term damage too. But does it justify lockdown ? closing down school ? No. Especially when its still unclear and lacking in stats.

>why should we even have bothered eradicating polio?

Because it doesn't require locking down significant part of the population...

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#84

Post by neltnerb »

totalZero wrote: post #75
ceilingcorner wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trades have been more lucrative than many liberal arts-esque jobs for decades. Awareness isn’t the issue. The issue is social acceptability. Until plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. stop being a part of the undesirable Other to middle and upper middle class Americans, nothing will change. Paying $100,000 for your kid to study underwater basket weaving at Harvard is still socially superior to running a multi-mil…

Any parent who thinks that way is a moron. Educated uselessness is to the detriment of the kid. If you want to be happy and healthy in America, you must have a way to make money. (Or your parents must give you so much money that you're set for life.)

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but having gone to a similar university I suspect that the underwater basketweaving degree from Harvard will come with lucrative enough connections to make up for the lack of actual skills.

Remember, success is way more than half luck. Going to Harvard makes your luck much better.

That Harvard Rolodex will get you a job even if your degree barely certifies that you have a pulse.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#85

Post by netcan »

LargeWu wrote: post #56
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

True. I don't think we disagree much.

This is part of the reason why I think the level of investment needs to remain high. College performs a complex task. It can't just be replaced by coursera.

I do think that in-person lectures, course design and such need a total overhaul. Modern technology does change the equation. In-person lectures no longer make sense, for example. That doesn't mean in-person college doesn't make sense.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#86

Post by chasd00 »

fortran77 wrote: post #26
nsnick wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is deciding to work a trade instead of going to Stanford.

How many Stanford students are even capable of working a trade?

it would be interesting to see the ambition and execution discipline of a young person who made in to, and through, Stanford applied to a traditional trade. If i may use a dirty word, "disruptive" comes to mind.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#87

Post by Gracana »

LargeWu wrote: post #56
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

Is college actually good at that sort of thing, or is it just better than staying at home? If I spent half my college tuition on networking, social clubs, conferences, hobby groups, etc, I bet I could do a lot better than I did at my college campus.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#88

Post by chrisseaton »

elliekelly wrote: post #77
chrisseaton wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would consider all of those “trades.” Well good luck communicating with other people because is not how anyone else anywhere uses the word ‘trade’. They’re not ‘trades’ they’re ‘professions’. And I would guess you already know this and you’re trying to be contrary rather than you’re genuinely misunderstanding a basic word.

I’m not being contrary at all. Nor do I think I’ve grossly misunderstood the word. Haven’t you ever been to a trade show - a meeting of people from one profession? I don’t think I’ve used the word outside of its definition: > 3. b : the business or work in which one engages regularly : OCCUPATION > 3. c : the persons engaged in an occupation, business, or industry https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trade

If you take your definition then all jobs are trades, in which case why do you think we have the word trade if it doesn’t add any new meaning, and what do you think a ‘profession‘ is?

Have you never heard people make a distinction between tradespeople and professionals?

What do you think the words in this article mean? Are they completely new concepts to you?

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-man...

> A ‘profession’ historically meant the three learned professions of the Church, Medicine and the Law but today the term goes much wider and normally involves some substantial exercise of intellectual skill.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#89

Post by Datsundere »

LargeWu wrote: post #56
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

>I know people who went to college, but lived at home with their parents "to save money". In reality, they didn't need to save the minimal room and board fees of a state school; they were mostly just cowards.

1. Anecdotal evidence that you know a few people that didn't grow up for whatever reason does not mean everyone is like that.

2. In most asian culture, people live with their parents for the entirety of life. Somehow according to you more than half the world's population is cowards. I digress because we're talking about american colleges and living in America but it still baffles me that someone educated like you would think there is nothing wrong with a stupid argument using selection bias.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#90

Post by ceilingcorner »

jeffbee wrote: post #79
chrisseaton wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would consider all of those “trades.” Well good luck communicating with other people because is not how anyone else anywhere uses the word ‘trade’. They’re not ‘trades’ they’re ‘professions’. And I would guess you already know this and you’re trying to be contrary rather than you’re genuinely misunderstanding a basic word.

Computer software development has none of the characteristics of a profession, either. There's no licensure, no guild, no liability, and many people practice it without formal training. The software industry would benefit from moving in the direction of being either a "trade" without the manual labor, or toward being a real profession, but it currently occupies a weird middle ground.

TBH I think this is a feature, not a bug. Over-credentializing coding will limit creativity. If you want a better existing paradigm, consider design (as in the broad field of design, which includes graphic, fashion, industrial, etc.)
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