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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

theverge.com

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#901

Post by pankajdoharey »

mobilemidget wrote: post #745
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

afaik google kicked them out of the store too. https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/8/13/21368079/for...

iOS Appstore users pay, android users dont. iOS is where the money is which is why everyone is up in Arms. Android is the ugly poor mans cousin of mobile phones where inspite of being the largest the app ecosystem remains small. I see why Apple is trying to protect their Ecosystem and so does android.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#902

Post by krrrh »

mullingitover wrote: post #480
greggman3 wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has 49-65% of the phone+tablet market in the USA. People keep forgetting it's irrelevant if Android is more popular the world over. Countries only bring anti-monopoly decisions based on their country's market, not the world market. Further, the market for "smartphones" is not Apple vs Google. It's Apple vs Samsung vs Motorola vs LG vs Sony. Those are smartphone makers. At the 50%+ marketshare, Apple has more th…

> Further, as pointed out elsewhere you don't have to have a monopoly for being sued for anti-competitive behavior. Conversely, you can have a monopoly and commit abuses and get away with it in the pro-business United States. Microsoft is noticeably intact, despite what we may have wanted to happen in the late 90s. Apple realistically has more to fear in Europe.

At this point it’s always important to remember that the DoJ lawsuit against Microsoft was largely about them abusing their market power by including a pre-installed web browser.

In this case, the market came together to produce a solution much better for society than the state could have concocted, or predicted: high quality open source software. We can all be thankful that Netscape’s market for $40 web browsers (actually buggy groupware by that point) wasn’t protected for any longer than it should have been, because the pressure of Microsoft’s dominance drove the market towards demanding more symmetrical rights via entirely new approaches of software development and distribution across desktop applications, server and embedded operating systems and software, and web-based platform-agnostic applications.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#903

Post by willtim »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #899
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

Google also kicked Epic out but no body is talking about that not even Epic. Maybe because Statistically Android users are less likely to pay for apps and services than iOS users. So clearly iOS is where the money is and nothing wrong in Apple trying to protect that.

It's perhaps less important because software can still be installed on Android without Google Play. Don't forget that Apple has already cut special deals with Amazon, so the extortionate 30% is negotiable, if one is big enough to fight.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#904

Post by bananaface »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #899
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

Google also kicked Epic out but no body is talking about that not even Epic. Maybe because Statistically Android users are less likely to pay for apps and services than iOS users. So clearly iOS is where the money is and nothing wrong in Apple trying to protect that.

I think it's closer to: Apple is the important target. If they win that suit, they automatically win against Google.

IMO the fact that both processors kicked them off strengthens their case, because it's a strong argument in favour of oligopoly.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#905

Post by boudin »

Razengan wrote: post #880
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

> It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. Oh please. Nobody who actually uses Apple feels that way. Though I agree they should allow a way to sideload apps. One of the downsides of being primarily an iOS dev is not being able to participate in activities like game-jams because there's no way to casually share my stuff with other users. > Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the…

Their review system is totally random, and that's what makes it painful. There's easy way to trick them for some things, so I wouldn't consider this as an actual proper safety net. It does give the impression of safety to the end user though, I guess that's the intent.

Apple uses techniques from totalitarian regimes. They decide, judge and control everything. There's no freedom at all. You can only use what Apple decide you can use. But it does provide some kind of safety, or at least a feeling of safety (there will always be security flaws). After, is it a good thing?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#906

Post by alkonaut »

Razengan wrote: post #880
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

> It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. Oh please. Nobody who actually uses Apple feels that way. Though I agree they should allow a way to sideload apps. One of the downsides of being primarily an iOS dev is not being able to participate in activities like game-jams because there's no way to casually share my stuff with other users. > Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the…

> they do a lot to curtail scummy developer practices.

Which is excellent. Apple taking a cut for apps I have no problem with. They have support, I trust them with privacy/security and so on. That costs money.

The interesting discussion is how much apple can claim to own a part of profits made in the apps, by selling content (in-app purchases).

On one hand: if a game is free for a trial, and you can unlock the full game I think that should count as an app purchase (the alternative would be to not have in-app upgrades and just have 2 apps, which was a worse situation).

But on the other hand: if I buy a recipe app for $10 and then recipes for $1 a piece which I could also buy on the corresponding website, then I don't think apple should have a cut at all.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#907

Post by shim2k »

mapcars wrote: post #878
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

Apple is against freedom like since the beginning, I don't understand how anybody can use any of their products.

People who still don’t understand why people pay for Apple products really lack basic piece of wisdom, making their opinion less valuable. Yet they still boast about this particular misunderstanding of theirs.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#908

Post by krrrh »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #784
whiddershins wrote: post #484

All I want is a system preference that says ‘allow apps from other sources than the apple App Store.’ And I want that setting to work exactly as you imagine. And then everything else problematic about this debate would disappear.

If that system preference ever gets added I want Apple to continue selling a version of iPhone that doesn't have it, with no way to enable it and with a promise to never add it in a future update. I consider not being able to sideload software onto an iPhone to be an important feature! I like knowing that if someone malicious with moderate but not extraordinary technical ability gets ahold of my unlocked phone they a…

So many of us function as unpaid tech support for various family members. I do everything I can to push them towards iOS largely because the total inability to side load apps saves me time and money.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#909

Post by xondono »

I’ve seen a lot of comments similar to “I don’t understand how users can be in favor of this”. I’m not just in favor, I love that they do that.

Yes, for the small percentage of the population that knows what’s doing (which nicely overlaps with HN), having freedom to install whatever you choose is great.

For >90% of the population it isn’t. Even with all of the improvements Windows has seen, for me it’s still a regular situation to feel like I won’t put one of my pen drives into the average Joe’s computer.

The freedom to install anything is the biggest security hole in most personal computers.

By not allowing it I can trust my parents and the rest of my family with phones knowing that they won’t do crazy stuff with the same device they use to log into their bank accounts and manage their authentication.

What inflames the 0.1% is a blessing for >90%.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#910

Post by kwanbix »

alkonaut wrote: post #906
Razengan wrote: post #880

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. Oh please. Nobody who actually uses Apple feels that way. Though I agree they should allow a way to sideload apps. One of the downsides of being primarily an iOS dev is not being able to participate in activities like game-jams because there's no way to casually share my stuff with other users. > Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the…

> they do a lot to curtail scummy developer practices. Which is excellent. Apple taking a cut for apps I have no problem with. They have support, I trust them with privacy/security and so on. That costs money. The interesting discussion is how much apple can claim to own a part of profits made in the apps, by selling content (in-app purchases). On one hand: if a game is free for a trial, and you can unlock the full g…

I agree with you somehow. 30% sounds too high. 10% is much more reasonable. Imagine you selling a house and the realtor getting 30% of it. Crazy high.
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