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Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

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Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#81

Post by randomsearch »

ssss11 wrote: post #78
jeswin wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something many HNers might be unaware of. China has several App Stores for Android, but only Chinese companies are allowed to list apps. Yup, completely closed to outside competition. The only appropriate response really is to close markets to Chinese companies until they open up theirs (without unreasonable restrictions on free speech).

I think the western world hoped China would open up over the past 20 years.. unfortunately that strategy has become a spectacular failure

Would it have been such a failure without the election of Trump?

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#82

Post by oysmal »

Razengan wrote: post #38
copp wrote: post #2

The usual discussion on this topic goes like this: Apple defenders - It is their right to do it, since Android store allows them. Others - Apple is being a hypocrite. While they maintain that app store must be compensated for all the services they do to developers, When given a chance they do not agree with their above statement. I feel w.r.t app stores, Google is User-centric, but Apple is Apple-Centric at the expen…

> but Apple is Apple-Centric at the expense of their customers Apple has done a lot to curtail scummy developer practices and protect users. You could go over each of their App Store policies and see how few of them are "at the expense of their customers." Not the least are their privacy and anti-tracking protections. iOS 14 already caught many apps (including Discord and Instagram) stealing our clipboard data and se…

I would argue Apple is very protectful of their platform, at the expense of the users. Of course in some cases, such as with privacy, what is good for the user is also good for Apple, because they get an additional selling point compared to the competition.

In my opinion, an example of Apple practices which are bad for customers is their line on progressive web apps. Apple limits support as they cannot keep control of their platform and revenue stream. I would argue however, that installable web apps are great for user experience, especially since it helps less resourceful businesses provide a good product for mobile devices. I'll admit there are privacy concerns regarding access to phone features from a web app, so Apple's arguments in blocking some (but not all) of these have some merit.

If you look beyond just the App Store policies, this general practice appears to me to limit innovation on the web platform, as Apple is invested in keeping apps the only first class citizen on their platform.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#83

Post by SifJar »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #70
ffpip wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't post to show Apple is breaking rules. I wanted to show they were 'freeloading', the same thing they are accusing Spotify and Epic of . They aren't worried about 'user experience, security and convenience' here. Google has a problem with games like Fortnite and PUBG, because then they would lose too much. Kids spend millions on Fortnite.

Google Play Store and the Apple App Store can’t be compared in this way, because they provide completely different services. The Apple App Store review process is far more thorough, and expensive to operate. Apple also invest more into ensuring the privacy and security objectives they have for the App Store are met by way of OS development. It’s not surprising that Google prices some services differently, and Apple i…

> they provide completely different services

there's only so much difference there can be between two app stores; if they were completely different, one wouldn't be an app store

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#84

Post by bzzzt »

znpy wrote: post #61
jariel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" is somehow equivalent to the luxury item that is an iPhone" A mobile phone is not a 'luxury' - it's almost an essential good these days. Even without that, an iPhone doesn't meet the criteria of 'luxury good'. It's just a little more expensive. Android and iOS have an important market locked down, it's time for some basic regulation.

A little more expensive isn't an accurate description. I have a 200€ xiaomi phone (redmi note 4) that works very well and I have little to no complaints. An iPhone costed 4-5 times that amount when I bought my phone, and does essentially the same things. But it's shinier. Yes, the iPhone is a luxury good. Edit, just to clarify: I have used an iPhone for an extended period of time (company issued): yes, the iPhone pre…

For starters it shares less data with Google by default and is not subsidised by privacy invasion.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#85

Post by politelemon »

Razengan wrote: post #38
copp wrote: post #2

The usual discussion on this topic goes like this: Apple defenders - It is their right to do it, since Android store allows them. Others - Apple is being a hypocrite. While they maintain that app store must be compensated for all the services they do to developers, When given a chance they do not agree with their above statement. I feel w.r.t app stores, Google is User-centric, but Apple is Apple-Centric at the expen…

> but Apple is Apple-Centric at the expense of their customers Apple has done a lot to curtail scummy developer practices and protect users. You could go over each of their App Store policies and see how few of them are "at the expense of their customers." Not the least are their privacy and anti-tracking protections. iOS 14 already caught many apps (including Discord and Instagram) stealing our clipboard data and se…

> iOS 14 already caught many apps (including Discord and Instagram) stealing our clipboard data and secretly accessing camera, mic and location.

Not really, this has just been a PR exercise that I'm watching with fascination - the real news is that they've shifted focus away from their own shortcomings. The real news here is that iOs14 allows unrestricted clipboard access. Think about that for a moment. Instead of actually fixing the issue, they choose to highlight it and call out apps for using the platform in a way they have allowed.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#87

Post by [deleted] »

randomsearch wrote: post #81
ssss11 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the western world hoped China would open up over the past 20 years.. unfortunately that strategy has become a spectacular failure

Would it have been such a failure without the election of Trump?

[deleted]

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#88

Post by dilutedh2o »

randomsearch wrote: post #81
ssss11 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the western world hoped China would open up over the past 20 years.. unfortunately that strategy has become a spectacular failure

Would it have been such a failure without the election of Trump?

yes

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#89

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

vmception wrote: post #32
clomond wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating analogy. Given the fundamental differences between corporations and governments (and the span of control they have over people’s lives) I do not believe this analogy can be used for any useful inference. It’s almost as if this example with app stores is an incredibly specific, narrow example, and government control in this way is incredibly broad in impact (I.e. life or death, end of the actual world etc)…

> Given the fundamental differences between corporations and governments I disagree with that line. I feel like people are desperate for there to be a difference based on some 9th grade civics class, or because an animated anthropomorphic piece of paper sang to them about bills in elementary school. The British East India company had the power to jail and kill, for centuries. The Head of the Executive Branch is the C…

It's amazing the mental gymnastics people will go through to justify their own beliefs.

If it has the power to jail and kill, that'll make it much more like a government than you like to admit.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#90

Post by mehrdada »

wvenable wrote: post #65
tyre wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the reverse. I have a HomePod and not an alexa or Google device because Apple has shown it cares about privacy. That's user-centric. Sure, we could be incredibly cynical in saying that "well because you buy it then it is actually Apple-centric", but they clearly care about privacy. Google to me is entirely Google-centric, which means harvesting as much data about me as possible to sell to advertisers. I…

> I'm fine with Apple's walled garden. Are you fine with paying Apple 30% of the cost of any application that you buy? It's not the developers that are paying this cost -- this is what you are paying to Apple for each app. That $25 app is costing you $7.50 that goes straight to Apple. All that money adds up fast. Even if you are good with that, I think you imagine that a lot of users -- even those who might be happy…

> It's not the developers that are paying this cost -- this is what you are paying to Apple for each app.

Is that right though? Is the economics as simplistic as that? Could it be that Apple can now bring down iPhone device prices while hitting the revenue targets they have in mind offset from services, effective benefiting iPhone SE 2020 consumers? Could it be that the cost of running the store, marketing and distribution and properly reviewing all the free apps that I actually use is subsidized by the minority of apps that are paid or have in app purchases? To say that the user is burdened by the entire 30% directly is quite an overreach. How do we know the developers won’t pocket the additional margin and keep prices at the current rate? (my bet is this, actually).

For me personally who almost never used a paid app, I can assure you that the 30% is not paid by me. I may have even benefited through iPhones cheaper than hypothetical price that Apple has to sell them without AppStore revenue potential. I certainly benefited by AppStore vetting shitty apps.

This is a business model choice and banning it is like saying Google Drive is not supposed to charge paid users more to subsidize free quotas.

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