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Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

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Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#61

Post by znpy »

jariel wrote: post #57
Fezzik wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that a person’s country of origin, where all laws and political dynamics are compulsory at birth, is somehow equivalent to the luxury item that is an iPhone is... bananas. Me thinks you stretch too far. Edit: ‘equivalent‘ should be ‘comparable’... obviously the OP is not saying they are equivalent.

" is somehow equivalent to the luxury item that is an iPhone" A mobile phone is not a 'luxury' - it's almost an essential good these days. Even without that, an iPhone doesn't meet the criteria of 'luxury good'. It's just a little more expensive. Android and iOS have an important market locked down, it's time for some basic regulation.

A little more expensive isn't an accurate description.

I have a 200€ xiaomi phone (redmi note 4) that works very well and I have little to no complaints.

An iPhone costed 4-5 times that amount when I bought my phone, and does essentially the same things. But it's shinier.

Yes, the iPhone is a luxury good.

Edit, just to clarify: I have used an iPhone for an extended period of time (company issued): yes, the iPhone pretty much does the same thing as an android phone, maybe a little less.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#62

Post by fauigerzigerk »

clomond wrote: post #24
kanobo wrote: post #7

Apple and Google are similar to China and America. Apple has more restrictive policies within a walled garden. Google gives more freedoms but its platform is wild and open. It's easy for Apple to take advantage of Google's ecosystem and open policies, but very difficult for Google to do the same to Apple. It's similar to how US companies don't get a fair shake in China. And in both, the citizens get taken advantage o…

Fascinating analogy. Given the fundamental differences between corporations and governments (and the span of control they have over people’s lives) I do not believe this analogy can be used for any useful inference. It’s almost as if this example with app stores is an incredibly specific, narrow example, and government control in this way is incredibly broad in impact (I.e. life or death, end of the actual world etc)…

I would normally agree with you and in fact I do still agree, but the lines are becoming uncomfortably blurred.

The enormous power that these two global corporations - Apple and Google - have over the livelihoods of so many developers and content producers is unprecedented. Each of them can wipe out the value of your professional skills over night.

For many people these corporations are without alternative. It's no longer a voluntary business relationship.

In Apple's case, the side-loading ban interacts with authoritarian government in a way that clearly threatens human rights. But at least on that particular issue consumers still have a choice.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#63

Post by jeswin »

kanobo wrote: post #7

Apple and Google are similar to China and America. Apple has more restrictive policies within a walled garden. Google gives more freedoms but its platform is wild and open. It's easy for Apple to take advantage of Google's ecosystem and open policies, but very difficult for Google to do the same to Apple. It's similar to how US companies don't get a fair shake in China. And in both, the citizens get taken advantage o…

Here's something many HNers might be unaware of. China has several App Stores for Android, but only Chinese companies are allowed to list apps. Yup, completely closed to outside competition.

The only appropriate response really is to close markets to Chinese companies until they open up theirs (without unreasonable restrictions on free speech).

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#64

Post by youngtaff »

Razengan wrote: post #50
cma wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under Apple's clarified guidelines, if a University put out a remote learning app to help students deal with the pandemic better than a browser solution, Apple would be entitled to 30% of each user's tuition. Once they have a few slow quarters and pull the lever on taking a cut of app mediated real-world services, we may see 10-30% of each Taxi ride going to Apple.

> Under Apple's clarified guidelines, if a University put out a remote learning app to help students deal with the pandemic better than a browser solution, Apple would be entitled to 30% of each user's tuition. I think they have mechanisms for distributing apps within an organization.

That's within an organisation though via enterprise distribution, or managed devices

University students normally bring their own devices so don't fit into that model

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#65

Post by wvenable »

tyre wrote: post #34
copp wrote: post #2

The usual discussion on this topic goes like this: Apple defenders - It is their right to do it, since Android store allows them. Others - Apple is being a hypocrite. While they maintain that app store must be compensated for all the services they do to developers, When given a chance they do not agree with their above statement. I feel w.r.t app stores, Google is User-centric, but Apple is Apple-Centric at the expen…

I would argue the reverse. I have a HomePod and not an alexa or Google device because Apple has shown it cares about privacy. That's user-centric. Sure, we could be incredibly cynical in saying that "well because you buy it then it is actually Apple-centric", but they clearly care about privacy. Google to me is entirely Google-centric, which means harvesting as much data about me as possible to sell to advertisers. I…

> I'm fine with Apple's walled garden.

Are you fine with paying Apple 30% of the cost of any application that you buy? It's not the developers that are paying this cost -- this is what you are paying to Apple for each app. That $25 app is costing you $7.50 that goes straight to Apple. All that money adds up fast.

Even if you are good with that, I think you imagine that a lot of users -- even those who might be happy with other aspects of the Apple ecosystem -- might not be happy with a 30% tax on all purchases made on their thousand dollar device. Apple even mandates that you're not allowed to know inside of an app about cheaper ways to pay.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#66

Post by willvarfar »

clomond wrote: post #24
kanobo wrote: post #7

Apple and Google are similar to China and America. Apple has more restrictive policies within a walled garden. Google gives more freedoms but its platform is wild and open. It's easy for Apple to take advantage of Google's ecosystem and open policies, but very difficult for Google to do the same to Apple. It's similar to how US companies don't get a fair shake in China. And in both, the citizens get taken advantage o…

Fascinating analogy. Given the fundamental differences between corporations and governments (and the span of control they have over people’s lives) I do not believe this analogy can be used for any useful inference. It’s almost as if this example with app stores is an incredibly specific, narrow example, and government control in this way is incredibly broad in impact (I.e. life or death, end of the actual world etc)…

It’s harder to draw a government corporate distinction while replying to a comment specifically mentioning China and the US?

Are the big Chinese tech companies independent of their government? And are the US companies exploring bidding for tiktok etc doing so because the US government is coercing them?

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#67

Post by jeroenhd »

Kind of scummy for Apple not to hold themselves to their standards, but then again I expect no less from them. The exemptions in the Play Store rules say they can, so there's not much anyone can do to stop this.

However, Apple may very well shoot themselves in the foot here. They just showed that they do not believe their own marketing speak about it being fair to pay an additional fee to keep app stores running and other such arguments.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#68

Post by reallydontask »

weehoo wrote: post #60
reallydontask wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to clarify? Do you mean that universities can distribute iOS apps to iOS devices without using the App Store?

Yeah that’s how companies like grocery stores that use iOS based devices for inventory management load their apps.

There is the Apple Developer Enterprise Program[0] but it suggests it's only for employees.

>Use the program only to create proprietary, in-house apps for internal use, and to distribute these apps privately and securely to employees within the organization.

Not sure if there is another programme that would work for universities

[0]https://developer.apple.com/programs/enterprise/

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#69

Post by jojobas »

copp wrote: post #2

The usual discussion on this topic goes like this: Apple defenders - It is their right to do it, since Android store allows them. Others - Apple is being a hypocrite. While they maintain that app store must be compensated for all the services they do to developers, When given a chance they do not agree with their above statement. I feel w.r.t app stores, Google is User-centric, but Apple is Apple-Centric at the expen…

At the very least Google lets you do whatever you want and install apps from elsewhere - a third party store or even a random apk from a shady website if you're brave.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#70

Post by AmericanChopper »

ffpip wrote: post #47
risyachka wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google explicitly says in their policy that you don't have to use their in-app billing to pay for music.

I didn't post to show Apple is breaking rules. I wanted to show they were 'freeloading', the same thing they are accusing Spotify and Epic of . They aren't worried about 'user experience, security and convenience' here. Google has a problem with games like Fortnite and PUBG, because then they would lose too much. Kids spend millions on Fortnite.

Google Play Store and the Apple App Store can’t be compared in this way, because they provide completely different services. The Apple App Store review process is far more thorough, and expensive to operate. Apple also invest more into ensuring the privacy and security objectives they have for the App Store are met by way of OS development. It’s not surprising that Google prices some services differently, and Apple is 100% playing by the rules.

Regarding your comments about security and UX, I know which one of those companies I trust more on both of those fronts. What phone number do I call for a billing issue with Google?

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