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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#361
post #8

Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?...

Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI

#freeFortnite, cute.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#362

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

> 10 GB smartphone plan for $75 Wow. In France it's the reverse: during promotions, you can get 70GB for €10. Out of promo, it's €15-€20 at low cost operators, and €35 at traditional brands.

Yeah, I spent half a day walking around phone stores in Vancouver trying to find a couple of GB pay as you go sim (expecting it to cost $10-20). Turns out they don't exist in Canada.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic doesn't need to pursue Apple iPhone customers they same way Epic doesn't need to pursue Sony Bravia customers. This is the same as Bungee not needing to pursue Playstation customers to make Halo what it is.

> Epic doesn't need to pursue Apple iPhone customers Apple does not get to decide how the market operates. Only government gets to do that. Your statement makes it clear that they are committing anti-competitive practices.

Your statement seems inaccurate.

Doesn't the Sony Playstation, or Microsoft's Xbox get to control how they operate?

Don't movie theaters get to decide which movies are shown/not?

Don't service providers like a nail salon or grocery store get to deny service? Other than for "protected categories" like sex, race, religion. e.g. "No shirt, no shoes, no service".

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#365

Remarkable that TikTok is still available on the App Store, despite the risk it poses to national security. I guess Apple and China sleeping together is truly a case of friends with benefits. Maybe Epic Games should please Apple more often?

Epic games kind of Tencent (a Chinese company) subsidiary, it has 40% share.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#366

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

> reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK.

Wait, how can what Apple does ever be okay even they legally don't have a monopoly.

Apple provides a marketplace (which they name store, but it's a marked place not a store) which is the only way to install software (on their phone) for millions of persons which means it's a marked and not just a marked place and they do both run the marked and provide products there but give their products an unfair competitive advantage (access to internal APIs, fast review, not applying app guidlines, subvention developent for the apps etc.) while haven basically rip-of pricing for (at least part of) the competition and intentionally preventing many business model and undermining how companies can freely present their products and company to users inside of their own products...

Not sure how anyone can call it ok, tbh.

Maybe legal due to a laws not yet having arrived in the 21st century but definitively not ok.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#367
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also just filed a lawsuit (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24147486 ). The strategist in me thinks that Epic Payments is a provocation rather than a product, they've been in touch with state attorney generals about Apple's antitrust situation, and the real goal is to get that lawsuit out, bring the antitrust hammer down on Apple, and maybe get some free PR and marketing from the press cycle.

Epic is tied to Tencent. This is a risky move.

This should not matter, if it does then it would be hard to call the US a "constitutional state"/"state of law".

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#368
post #359

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

I find those prices shocking. In the UK, I pay £10 for 6GB and unlimited calls and texts. For £20, I could have 80 GB of data on my current network.

But that same complained about phenomenon applies in the UK. Regulators do put at least some effort into trying to disrupt it but it's definitely there.

Example: A few years ago it was legal in the UK to advertise the price of broadband excluding the fee for "landline rental". This recurring fee notionally covers the service cost of the actual copper (in most cases) last mile cable needed to deliver service. In principle you could use it to make voice telephone calls (remember those?) and needn't buy it from the same provider as Internet service piggybacked on the same physical infrastructure.

So e.g. Big ISP #1 advertises Internet is "£5 for first six months†" and then the small print explains "† Plus line rental of £11.50 per month". That's £16.50 customers will actually be paying, and a competitor Big ISP #2 won't get far advertising Internet as "£15 for first six months" because that sounds much more expensive even though it's less. So sure enough they'll do the same thing only more so "£3 for the first six months†" "† Plus line rental of £12 per month".

Still, ISPs argued this is fair because they don't actually provide the service "line rental" pays for, they don't have teams of engineers in vans ready to dig up cable and repair it, that's something a last mile owner does.

Except, since the last mile is a natural monopoly that provider is legally obliged to publish its pricing and rationale. Sure enough it does bill for "line rental". But is it charging £12 per month? £11.50 per month? Er, no, over the modern period its costs have reduced gradually and it's charging those ISPs about £8 per month. So that £12 "line rental" is actually £8 line rental plus £4 "Money we're hiding from our real prices so as to trick customers".

Even if they never met in a darkened room and agreed to fix these bogus prices, the effect was that all large UK ISPs inflated a fee so as to make their prices look cheaper, taking advantage of customers. Maybe no crime was committed, except in the sense that customers got ripped off.

This particular loophole was closed by requiring ISPs to advertise the price that includes all fees needed to deliver the actual service, and sure enough once they couldn't use it to hide the real price the ISPs stopped pretending "line rental" cost 50% more than it really did.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#369
post #68

I am ignorant of the rules applying to apps with payments in the apple app store. Is it true retailers do not have to pay a percentage to Apple when people pay to reload cards through the app? https://twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1293893660493455360 "Wow. Epic outright promoting direct in-app payment around iOS store but in iOS apps And users collect 100% of the savings. No monetary benefit to Epic. Note: McDonalds…

Wow, what they did is brilliant. Direct way to show consumer harm due to the iOS fees.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#370

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

> reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. Wait, how can what Apple does ever be okay even they legally don't have a monopoly. Apple provides a marketplace (which they name store, but it's a marked place not a store) which is the only way to install software (on their phone) for millions of persons which means it's a marked and not just a marked place and they do both run th…

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