Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 513 posts

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#331

Post by heavyset_go »

MikusR wrote: post #289
heavyset_go wrote: post #77

Apple and Google are able to gatekeep what you can install on entire generations of devices, from smartphones to tablets. Their power to gatekeep billion dollar markets needs to be looked at through the lens of antitrust legislation.

Apple yes. Google no. You can install 3rd party stores and freely sideload apps.

I don't think "freely" is the adverb I'd use to describe the sideloading process, considering how "freely" and effortlessly I can install apps in Google's preferred way through the Play Store.

Google made it so third party app stores like F-Droid can't even implement auto-upgrading, or background installations of apps. App stores outside of the Play Store and 3rd party apps are 2nd class citizens on Android.

It is similar to how Gatekeeper works in macOS. Developers that didn't pay Apple $100 a year to develop and notarize software have their apps get treated like they're radioactive by Gatekeeper.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#332

Post by pythonaut_16 »

linuxhansl wrote: post #261
donor20 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

Huh? All of Apple is (or soon will be) an entirely closed garden. You can harp on the literal meaning of the word "monopoly" all day, but Apple still makes a profit from a market dominating position. 30%? Just to be distributor? Really? If their H/W would be free I'd have some sympathy, but as is you pay for their devices and then pay a 30% fee. In my book this is way-laying. I'm not using any Apple products for exac…

Where does Apple cross the line from being able to sell a completely closed garden product to having to allow fair competition?

If iPhone had no App store and only had official Apple apps we wouldn't be having this conversation, regardless of how popular iPhones are.

I think Apple is in the wrong, but a critical issue what threshold or criteria must be met for them to be required to offer an open(ish) platform?

*open(ish) meaning allowing alternative app stores or charging industry standard payment processing fees.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#333

Post by sangnoir »

threatofrain wrote: post #21
FreakyT wrote: post #4

Really hoping regulators crack down hard on Apple's clearly anticompetitive practices. If Apple allowed sideloading the entire point would be, of course, moot, but Apple's continued refusal to allow this is really the biggest problem, IMO.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

> I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements

No one forces you to side-load. I don't see how you not wanting something turns into "no one else should have it"

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#334

Post by smiley1437 »

cma wrote: post #203
donor20 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

Apple is at a much higher dollar share of the high-spending consumer segment that is relevant to app developers.

But could it be that the extra 30% Apple charges goes partly towards curating apps and ensuring they work well and are reasonably secure?

And that the high-spending consumer segment appreciates this?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#335

Post by Apocryphon »

threeseed wrote: post #111
ardit33 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until regulations steps in, and mandates to be more fair and open, or to break up the company, or to allow multiple app stores (by competitors). At the end of the day, and iPad is a general computing device, and it will probably be treated as such in courts, where there are precedents on this.

a) There are no rules that mandate that a "general computing device" must be open in whatever arbitrary way you've not defined. b) There are no precedents that state that a platform must have competing App Stores or make them freely available for anyone to publish. In fact the opposite is the default in companies today e.g. PSN, XBox, Tesla, Shopify, Salesforce. If you have case law that contradicts this please by al…

Perhaps a case related to open source licensing? Here's one that's still in progress:

https://resources.whitesourcesoftware.com/blog-whitesource/t...

Of course, Apple had the foresight to purge GPL apps from its store:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#336

Post by jbarnett2 »

makecheck wrote: post #238

This is one of the games Apple likes to “feature” regularly. They basically strongly encouraged people to buy this game one week, and yanked it from the store the week after. The game “owners” should be livid.

It's like you're dating a hot girl and you like showing her off. Then you find out the next week she cheated on you then you dump her. Wouldn't you do the same thing in Apple's position?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#337

Post by heavyset_go »

Vendan wrote: post #321
heavyset_go wrote: post #77

Apple and Google are able to gatekeep what you can install on entire generations of devices, from smartphones to tablets. Their power to gatekeep billion dollar markets needs to be looked at through the lens of antitrust legislation.

Google gatekeeps by default but you can trivially bypass and install custom app stores or sideload apps. Apple gatekeeps, and does everything in its power to prevent you from bypassing that. Seems like a rather striking difference...

Third party app stores can't implement background installations, auto-upgrading, or batch installs because of the restrictions Google put in place on Android. Using third party app stores is hindered experience on Android.

The Play Store can do background installations, auto-upgrading and batch installs of software, while competitors can't. That's anticompetitive behavior in my book.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#338

Post by somethingwitty1 »

ptudan wrote: post #315
pythonaut_16 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Unreal Engine license is like Epic giving you a toolbox for no upfront cost, but charging you 5% of whatever revenue you generate selling goods made using the toolbox. The App store comission is like Apple charging you 30% anytime you sell one of those goods to someone who lives in an Apple branded house. (To complete the analogy, maybe you're a door to door salesman and Apple charges you a "sidewalk usage fee" o…

How is the apple app store and development kit etc etc not a toolbox? Granted 30% is a ridiculous cut.

You can switch toolboxes. You can't switch app stores.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#339

Post by mdoms »

donor20 wrote: post #25
elliekelly wrote: post #12

What is Apple’s end game here? It seems like they’re fighting a losing battle and digging their own antitrust grave. Pretty clever on Epic’s part to specifically highlight how Apple’s app store fee hits the user directly. Pretty short-sighted of Apple to immediately pull an app for providing consumers with additional disclosure about where their money is going.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

The comment you're responding to never used the word "monopoly", what are you talking about?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#340

Post by bengale »

nabla9 wrote: post #132
dmix wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Epic is planning to rely on US anti-trust intervention, they will be waiting a very long time, even in a best-case scenario situation. Unless they know something the public doesn't about a prior case file, this stuff takes a long time to be fully investigated and go through the courts.

That's why I think it's up to the EU.

Still won’t be quick. EU has bigger things to deal with right now and even if they do pass something the ECJ would then be involved no doubt.
Post reply on HN