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Epic direct payment on mobile

epicgames.com

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Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#321

Post by UhDev »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #315
ardit33 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem young and naive.... For many, their iOS device (iPad or iPhone) is their primary computing device.... it is not like a PS4, which is mainly for games. Back in the 90's If Microsoft didn't get 'checked' with a threat to be broken up, we would have ended up with Pay MSFT 30% tax on every software you installed and purchased. It it time to 'check' both Apple and Google on their practices... In this case, Google…

You seem condescending and annoying.... I was alive and working during the 90's and a massive linux/freebsd user then. What Microsoft was doing, forcing the hardware manufacturers to install windows or lose their business - forcing the bundling of internet explorer, is absolutely and completely different than what Apple is doing. It's their platform, the are not forcing any one to do anything.

The way you describe it here actually makes them sound pretty similar. Isn't Windows Microsoft's platform?

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#322

Post by mercer »

amsilprotag wrote: post #190
umvi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love it when big companies play abstract strategic games with each other like this. Competition at its finest.

Tim Sweeney is really interesting. He coded Unreal Engine 1 and is controlling shareholder of Epic. He gave a speech[0] January at a game conference arguing against the App/Play store 30% mark. I think he has internalized Ben Thompson's FAANG strategy concepts and created the best denunciation of the mindset, in this speech attacking the concept of "owning the customer." He joins Shopify in trying to create platforms…

He also made ZZT!

As far as 'getting into programming' goes, Sweeney is probably second only to Anders Heljsberg. Where the latter got me into 'proper' programming, until well into my late teens I was more interested in level editing and modding and whatnot.

In the same way that it was amazing to find out that the same guy was behind Turbo Pascal, Delphi and Typescript, it was amazing to discover that ZZT and UnrealED, years apart, were also just one guy. I spent so much time with these tools!

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#323

Post by stale2002 »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #291
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Apple doesn't have the right to set it's rules and decide who can and can't be on their platform. Monopolies lose that, and Tim Cook was grilled on this exact topic by the House Antitrust Committee just days ago. Which is to say, even if the current laws allow Apple to act here, if it does, the next laws might prohibit it from doing so.

It's not a monopoly, there is NO definition that fits for Apple being a monopoly. DOn't like Apple buy an Android. Android is more popular and has the same rules. Game Developer? Don't like Apple's rules develop for Android or Switch or PS4 or the Web or PC etc.... Apple sells a platform and it's successful but it's absolutely not the only platform around or even the biggest except in sales. Tim Cook wasn't grilled i…

> It's not a monopoly, there is NO definition that fits for Apple being a monopoly.

Sure there is. It has a monopoly over apps that consumers install on apple phones.

That is a huge market, and one that apple has monopoly control over.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#324

Post by saagarjha »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #304
ipython wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expand the “Facebook research” section.

I have conflicted feelings about "Facebook Research", but where I always end up is this: if citizens of a free society want to give away their data in exchange for a couple extra dollars a month, they should have that ability in a free society. People can and should be educated of the risks so they can make informed decisions, but trying to stop it is ultimately a fruitless errand (Even as Facebook is a pile a scum,…

The real problem I think is that it is extremely hard to get users to understand what exactly they are signing up for when they do that…

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#325

Post by giarc »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #61

Tim Cook vs Tim Sweeney, this is a serious round, with possible big implications for many developers and companies. In the end, both Epic and Apple are big corporations that should not be blindly trusted, but my money is on Sweeney, I have greater faith in the uber-nerd vs the perfect production manager.

>I have greater faith in the uber-nerd vs the perfect production manager.

I have greater faith in the company with over $200 billion cash on hand, that can throw a ton of money at a long drawn out court battle.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#326

Post by recursive »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #301
recursive wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhone users already pay for hardware.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with paying for the App Store or games on it. What's your point? Apple should be forced to give up control of their work?

My point is definitely not that Apple should be forced to give up control of their work, since I'm not sure which work you're referring to.

As far as I know, you can't use Apple's store without Apple's hardware. So my point is that Apple is getting paid.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#327

Post by MarkSweep »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #225
aweb wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not sure you understand how sideloading works on Android. You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from (eg. your browser for a downloaded app, or an alternative app store like F-Droid). Afterwards, every app installation still needs to be manually approved and thus cannot be done hidden in the background. Seems pretty safe to me while still allowing more freedom to power users.

> You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from Problem is e.g. Facebook will immediately require side loading so they can install all manner of spyware that wouldn’t make it through the App Store’s vetting process.

This assumes that side-loaded applications have less restrictions than store apps. The same sandbox restrictions and permission prompts could be applied to a side-loaded app as a store app.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#328

Post by stale2002 »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #285
lacker wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They forbid you from using any other distribution mechanism on their device, though. The only reason Apple has to pay for App Store overhead for every single app is because Apple mandated it that way.

It's THEIR platform, they built it, they own it, and there are more popular alternatives. Don't like Apples App Store buy an Android. Don't like Apple's App Store build an app for Android, Web, Console, or PC. No one is forced to make games for Apple. If I build a store and sell goods out of it, I set the terms, no one has the right to walk into that store and tell me I can't take a cut of the profits. Just because t…

> It's THEIR platform, they built it, they own it, and there are more popular alternatives.

A monopoly is a monopoly, friend.

> No one is forced to make games for Apple.

Monopoly laws supersede this argument.

> no one has the right to walk into that store and tell me I can't take a cut of the profits

Actually, if a business has a monopoly on a certain market, then there absolutely are things that a person can demand that they do.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#329

Post by ffggvv »

gutnor wrote: post #102
theli0nheart wrote: post #9

This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not…

I'm scared of that though. Although on one end I would like to buy my kindle books straight from the app and play xcloud games, I'm thinking of the dodgier companies. Right now I have little to worry about when I leave my kid playing a game, all the payment need to go through Apple or at least the offending app will not stay up for too long. I want Apple to be forced to come up with a fairer solution (eg: same api, b…

no offense but your child rearing worries shouldn’t force some rule on every consenting adult. maybe watch them or control what they do or apple can build a child mode.

but it’s not an excuse to limit our freedoms

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#330

Post by mattmaroon »

balfirevic wrote: post #143
mattmaroon wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the non-Apple part, that's how it pretty much works now. Only 3% and 8% of apps in the stores are paid on Android and iOS respectively, and counted by downloads it's probably much lower. IAPs might be over 99% of revenue. If I were Apple, I'd make my payments optional. They're so seamless that as a customer, I'd probably still use them unless I were getting a substantial discount to do otherwise, and somet…

> Other than the non-Apple part, that's how it pretty much works now. Only 3% and 8% of apps in the stores are paid on Android and iOS respectively, and counted by downloads it's probably much lower. IAPs might be over 99% of revenue. Yes, but all IAPs now go through Apple and they get their 30% cut. > hey're so seamless that as a customer, I'd probably still use them unless I were getting a substantial discount to d…

Right, I was just pointing out that for the consumer, there's basically no difference in app business models. It just may be a different payment processor and maybe lower prices.
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