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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#61

Post by [deleted] »

aaomidi wrote: post #41
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law allows for Apple to do this. You don’t have to use Apple products. You don’t have to use the Apple transaction system. It is not a commons, it is not a monopoly. There are other platforms and e-commerce solutions. If you want to regulate Apple’s behavior, introduce a law (I would support a law to regulate Apple’s cut of App Store transactions). Fortnite getting booted isn’t going to get a bill sponsored or ha…

Except there was literally a hearing last week, and multiple plans in EU to stop this sort of behavior, exactly because of the evidence that companies like Epic Games bring to light.

[deleted]

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#62

Post by ss3000 »

btbuilder wrote: post #22
wedn3sday wrote: post #7

How is the apple app store not the definition of a monopoly? Is there an competing app store on iphones that Epic could be using?

Apple has something like ~40% of US market share of smart phones. Therefore it is not a monopoly even if within that market share they have complete control with app store.

That's only the difference between a monopoly vs duopoly though, and as far as the app developer is concerned I'm not sure it makes much of a difference.

Reality is anyone releasing a for-profit app aiming for mass appeal can't afford to ignore either the Android or iOS ecosystem. They have to release for both, so there's no real competition involved.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#63

Post by girishso »

KMnO4 wrote: post #16
floydnoel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well they do allow that, users have to reinstall every week though.

Free certificates last a week. You can also pay Apple $99 to get a certificate that lasts a year, or pay a "UDID registration" website around $10 for the same (with some limitations).

What’s UDID registration website?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#64

Post by bredren »

EE84M3i wrote: post #2

The Verge has a statement from apple: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-i...

Concluding points from the statement:

>Epic agreed to the App Store terms and guidelines freely and we’re glad they’ve built such a successful business on the App Store.

>The fact that their business interests now lead them to push for a special arrangement does not change the fact that these guidelines create a level playing field for all developers and make the store safe for all users.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#65

Post by aaomidi »

ardit33 wrote: post #45
jaegerpicker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The own the platform, they designed it, built it, and maintain it. They have every right to set the rules for it.

Until regulations steps in, and mandates to be more fair and open, or to break up the company, or to allow multiple app stores (by competitors). At the end of the day, and iPad is a general computing device, and it will probably be treated as such in courts, where there are precedents on this.

And Apple markets the iPad and other various apple devices as general computing too.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#66

Post by ashtonkem »

rbecker wrote: post #32
donor20 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

'Monopoly' is just a poorly phrased way of saying abuse of market power. Edit as reply: I'm not accusing them of breaking a law, but of abusing their position. That there might not yet be a law against this specific kind of abuse doesn't make the practice any less abusive.

If you are accusing Apple of doing something contrary to US law, you have to be specific about what that is. What do you mean by "abuse of market power"? What is the law or regulation that you are accusing Apple of being in breach of?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#67

Post by ashtonkem »

mhh__ wrote: post #52
donor20 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

Monopoly or not, Apple users (apple love lock in, moving to android is not trivial) are not treated particularly well.

"I don't like it" and "It's illegal" are not the same thing.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#68

Post by pgrote »

I am ignorant of the rules applying to apps with payments in the apple app store. Is it true retailers do not have to pay a percentage to Apple when people pay to reload cards through the app?

https://twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1293893660493455360

"Wow. Epic outright promoting direct in-app payment around iOS store but in iOS apps

And users collect 100% of the savings. No monetary benefit to Epic.

Note: McDonalds, Starbucks, et al are 'allowed' to do this today - but not gaming/media cos"

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#69

Post by basch »

stefan_ wrote: post #42
nabla9 wrote: post #27

Apple platform is closed like gaming consoles. Epic almost certainly knew this was going to happen. I think they are trying to build a case for regulatory intervention. US Antitrust is still in the 80's Chicago School era where antitrust is solely based on consumer benefit and and efficiency. EU has more broad approach where economic power in the public interest is important. It may be up to the EU to change how Appl…

This seems like a close and shut case of consumer harm right here.

Apple can argue its 30% surcharge protects consumers from their payment information being tied to each individual product, making canceling easier and buying things safer.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#70

Post by ecf »

itsovermyhead wrote: post #40
donor20 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

It's not about using a different OS. The monopoly is that if you want to distribute through Apple, you have to go through their app store. There's not another app store that you can go through. At least with Android you can go through f-droid if you don't like the Play Store.

That’s not a monopoly though. No one is being forced into using an iOS device.

A monopoly would be if Apple was literally the only smartphone manufacturer in the entire world.

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